Job ter Burg:

I vaguely recall that it has to do with how VTRs record the signal,

AndrewAction:

With PsF the VTR still writes the info for half the picture each head pass, just the first 540 consecetive lines on pass 1 and the remainder with the second head pass (for a 1080 frame size)

I don't think that is true. It's exactly the same. Sony basically took 50i technique and slowed it down to 48i, then specified progressive capture be stored in that 48i.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_segmented_frame

Actually, I think that 720p is recorded as whole frames, everything else is Psf.

Anyway the point is that as far as data rates/quality is affected, 24p=24psf=48i.

As the compression used in HD decks is long GOP there will be a slight difference if the material is actually interlaced.

NubusAvid:

Actually, I think that 720p is recorded as whole frames

I think some 720-formats are actually 23.976-within-59.98i.

lalittle:

I don't understand how this would save any bandwidth.  It's still 23.976 fps of material displayed every second, so isn't the actual amount of image data per second the same?

Bandwidth is a measure of how big the chunks of data are that you are moving.  The data rate is a measure how much data is being moved per unit of time.  The analogy of pipe diameter, pressure, and volumetric flow rate works well for this where the bandwidth is the pipe diameter, the volumetric flow rate is the data rate, and the pressure is the frequency (determines speed of flow).  With interlacing, the frame size is halved so a lower bandwidth is possible.  When it comes to video, cutting your bandwidth in half will greatly reduce your costs.

I'm guessing that the reason we aren't seeing any true 1080p support is that it would be much more expensive, and besides, PsF isn't such a bad compromise.  IMHO side-by-side, most people would preceive the PsF version to be of higher quality do to it having less flicker.

Keith

Mercer:

national (and international) broadcaster's delivery still requires a HDCam SR master,

Hey Mercer,

I think it depends on what you're delivering. All the major networks accept commercials from me on plain old HDCAM.

Also, virtually all of the local broadcast stations I deal with nationwide still require Beta SP dubs.  So in this situation, using the AJA box would require an analog component converter - unless you're mastering to DigiBeta and dubbing off to Beta SP . .

Brickwad:

...virtually all of the local broadcast stations I deal with nationwide still require Beta SP dubs.

As I mentioned earlier, my experience is that more and more local stations are accepting file uploads as well as tape for commercial inserts...both SD and HD.   One of my clients now PREFERS that I upload...they don't even want to deal with tapes!  

This has all taken place within the last 6 months.  I concede the advantages of tape for archiving and backup, but delivery by FTP is right around the corner...if it hasn't already arrived in your market.  If $$$ is a consideration...(when isn't it?)...buying an analog converter so you can hook up a Beta SP deck may not be a good long-term investment.   Of course, if you need it for a job right now, that's another matter.

Let me share this story...   A few months ago, I found a "great deal" on a Beta SP deck on Ebay.   Before I put in my bid, I called an engineer at one of the stations I was doing a lot of work for and found out they were going with an FTP the following month.  Moreover, he told me they were hoping to phase out Beta SP commercial insertion as soon as feasible.  Needless to say, I didn't buy the Beta deck.   Now, I'd dump a Beta SP deck on Ebay while I can still get something for it!  Things are changing that fast... 

Brickwad:

I think it depends on what you're delivering. All the major networks accept commercials from me on plain old HDCAM.

Well not the BBC nor Discovery HD for main programming, HDCAM was acceptable about 2-3 years ago, now it has to be HDCam SR. But SDI requirements are the same for both anyway.

Beta SP is absolutely non-exsistent in UK broadcasting either local or national. DVcam replaced it a long time ago. Some European countries continued to use it until Analogue switch-off.

Mercer:

Well not the BBC nor Discovery HD for main programming

I've never dealt with those networks.  I'm talking ABC, CBS, NBC, & Fox in New York. It's interesting that DVCam is preferred over Beta SP in the UK.

Terry Snyder:

As I mentioned earlier, my experience is that more and more local stations are accepting file uploads as well as tape for commercial inserts...both SD and HD.   One of my clients now PREFERS that I upload...they don't even want to deal with tapes!  

I hear that . .I just recently installed a sweet Digital Rapids setup, that takes quicktime reference files from my Unity, and automatically transcodes them into whatever flavors the individual stations want - then automatically delivers them either to our FTP site or the individual stations sites.  It's fully automated. Just export the QTRef, push a button, and go back to what you're doing. All you have to do is setup the individual stations profiles, and you're in business.  It's really cool, but unfortunately, only a minority of stations are prepared for it at this time.

Many of the stations want feeds from DG fast Channel.  I figured out that, due to the high volume of commercials I produce, it would cost me over $4 million a year to use DG. Needless to say, these stations are getting tape.

But you'd charge them 5 million, right?

Brickwad:

Many of the stations want feeds from DG fast Channel.  I figured out that, due to the high volume of commercials I produce, it would cost me over $4 million a year to use DG. Needless to say, these stations are getting tape.

ronn:

But you'd charge them 5 million, right?

Million dollars profit, eh? Sounds wonderful! But I think my clients would rather pay 50 bucks a dub plus shipping than $250 per spot per station.

Brickwad:

I just recently installed a sweet Digital Rapids setup, that takes quicktime reference files from my Unity, and automatically transcodes them into whatever flavors the individual stations want - then automatically delivers them either to our FTP site or the individual stations sites.  It's fully automated. Just export the QTRef, push a button, and go back to what you're doing.

I'm envious...   I have a small production company, so I log onto their FTP site, start the upload, and go home...   With luck, the upload is complete by the morning.  (I'm not joking...  The uncompressed QT's are huge, and the upload's take several hours. Since I have a high-speed connection, I assume the delay is on the receiving end.)   

Brickwad:

...but unfortunately, only a minority of stations are prepared for it at this time.  Many of the stations want feeds from DG fast Channel.

I only had one case where they used DG fast Channel...and, yeah, I sent a tape...$18 bucks via FedEx not-as-fast-but-reliable Channel!

Brickwad:

I just recently installed a sweet Digital Rapids setup, that takes quicktime reference files from my Unity, and automatically transcodes them into whatever flavors the individual stations want - then automatically delivers them either to our FTP site or the individual stations sites.  It's fully automated. Just export the QTRef, push a button, and go back to what you're doing.

I'm envious...   I have a small production company, so I log onto their FTP site, start the upload, and go home...   With luck, the upload is complete by the morning.  (I'm not joking...  The uncompressed QT's are huge, and the upload's take several hours. Since I have a high-speed connection, I assume the delay is on the receiving end.)   

Brickwad:

...but unfortunately, only a minority of stations are prepared for it at this time.  Many of the stations want feeds from DG fast Channel.

I only had one case where they used DG fast Channel...and, yeah, I sent a tape...$18 bucks via FedEx not-as-fast-but-reliable Channel!