Hi all

I've been editing remotely for years now using Zoom to share the Avid screen and audio with directors.

The audio has never been that satisfactory at their end. I think the audio they're getting is simply what the iMac hears coming out my speakers in the room? Dialogue often unclear and music rarely cuts through well, even with "original sound" enabled.

Is there a simple way to send the Avid audio direct to the director and also be able to talk to them, ideally without me having to wear headphones?

What do other people do?

My setup is Avid  on iMac, using AJA T-Tap BOB, I also route the audio though a Soundcraft mixer.

Thanks for any pointers!

I had to develop a good "remote" client session for Covid a few years ago, that I can fully detail for you, but if it's just audio you're concerned about, buy Loopback (I 'think' it's more fully featured if you go to their website vs. the App Store. It's $99 and allows you do to do all sorts of cool audio patching.

https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/

Cheers,

J

Thanks Jason.

I’ve downloaded Loopback but I’m not sure how to configure… I'm on Avid 2021.12 on an iMac, with AJA T0Tap BOB hardware for a full screen client monitor, audio comes via this monitor out to my mixer and then out to speakers. I have my director on Zoom, screensharing,  but the audio he gets is not great. I want him to be able to hear the Avid clean audio direct (at the moment he hears what the iMac internal mic picks up in my room I think). But I also want to hear the avid audio myself AND I want him to be able to hear me!  I think I've realised that I'll have to wear headphones to achieve this?  But I still can't work out how to configure for this scenario. Don’t suppose you can help?  Or would I benefit from finding out more about your setup?  It iS just audio I’m concerned about. Many thanks for any help!

 

Ok, I'll do my best:

I use multiple edit softwares, but AVID is the only one which locks you to whatever hardware device you are using...making it much more difficult. In this situation, if you require video out, you MUST use the audio path along with it. THEREFORE, with Avid, you've got to get creative to 'break' that apart. BTW, the latest iteration of MC allows MORE THAN ONE device at one time, so you COULD use AJA AND NDI, but NDI is spotty. My workflow is not to be screen-sharing anything, but sending the ACTUAL Avid A/V signal out.

At first I used a full-duplex Blackmagic card, meaning, I sent video/audio OUT of BM from Avid, but also sent THAT signal IN to the card, and that allowed me to get the A/V signal back in to my computer but keep my video monitoring on my broadcast monitors. I then used OBS studio to "grab" that A/V signal, and combine it with a webcam of me (which I could turn on and off), and using NDI Virtual Input and Loopback, I'd marry that all for a feed into Zoom (NDI output on in OBS, NDI Virtual Input app using THAT OBS NDI feed, Zoom then using THAT NDI feed as video signal, Loopback virtual device as audio signal to zoom). I have a fairly robust machine, so believe it or not, the latency was actually pretty good. One can also use OBS Studio to actually send a video signal out to client monitors, BTW.

Now, I use the Blackmagic Webcaster, which eliminates a ton of in-computer processing, but one can actually do webcasting with it (no Zoom). You can use this to capture your Avid A/V out, keep your client monitor feed, AND feed that into Loopback/OBS where you can mix it with a mic/webcam. I can explain more if you ever go this route.

My setup is way more complicated because I'm also overlaying a video webcam of my face on top of my Avid feed (which I can turn on and off). Sans that, it is much easier because all you're doing is mixing the audio.

With your T-tap, your options are more limited. An easy fix is to add a mic or webcam to get your voice, turn OFF Avid's AJA output (so that Avid audio is now grabbable by the OS), make a "virtual device" in Loopback so you can add Avid AND the webcam as a source, and use this virtual device (it will appear in your System Preferences as an audio device) that is essentially mixing the two. There's no getting around the fact that you'll have to use headphones if you want to avoid feedback.

You can also experiment with using the NDI output of AVID, in combination with NDI's Virtual Input (it's a software package from Newtek that you have to download) and feed THAT into Loopback to 'mix' with your webcam, but honestly, I haven't had a lot of faith in how well NDI works for several years now, generally.

You can also KEEP your Avid AJA output enabled, and send that audio signal (you said coming off your client monitor, right?) INTO your mac (for example, a mic input) and use that signal in Loopback to mix with your mic/webcam.

You're just gonna have to experiment, but really, Loopback is the key to "mixing" virtual audio sources. If you have an actual mixer, you can technically skip Loopback and feed the AJA channel, and a mic channel back into your Mac and use THAT as the source of your audio to remote client. I have a mixer, but I prefer the flexibility of Loopback for sure, as well as having the ability to grab the audio sources digitally straight from the source.

Quick Loopback overview: on the left column you "Add a New Virtual Device," and give it a name. In the right/main section, you start by adding a source(s). When you click the "+" sign, you'll see the magic of being able to grab a whole lotta things, but note that Apps don't usually appear here if they're not launched already. If you try to add Avid (or AJA) whilst you have your AJA output enabled (in MC), you likely won't get audio here in Loopback (again, the 'locked out" problem). This is where you'll have to get creative getting that Avid/AJA audio signal. Again, if you can turn off your AJA feed, you'll get the Avid/AJA app audio no problem, but if you keep that on, you'll have to figure out a way to get the Avid audio back into the computer so that Loopback can find it. See my suggestions above for this. You can then add another Source like a mic or webcam, and now you have the two 'mixed' in. The name of this new virtual source will now become available system-wide (System Preferences and other apps), so you can use it in Zoom or whatever you are using as the audio source. Loopback is super powerful, and I've used it for grabbing audio from the web, and all sorts of other things.

I know this all very complicated, but I've used it for two+ years now for remote clients and they love it.

Good luck!

J

Thanks so much for this amazingly detailed reply - really appreciate your time!

I can’t seem to get Loopback working though - every combination seems to give me my own voice feeding back in my headphones! As a basic starting point I’m trying to make a setup work with AJA disabled - if I can get that working then I’ll explore feeding the AJA output back into the mixer and the mixer into the iMac for Loopback to send, mixed with my voice... Any pointers?  

Feedback is obviously caused by a signal getting doubled up, so you'll have to muddle around to figure out what you're doing wrong. My bet is you have the Mac's system preferences "input" set to your mic (which you should not if Loopback is also grabbing that signal) or you've added a "monitor" feed in Loopback that is causing issue. 
j 

Hmm - Internal Mic is the ONLY option for input in system prefs… can I deselect it?

 

Just to add one more thing specifically for Zoom. In the audio options you have the ability to use "original sound for musicians" and check a "hi-fidelty" box and select "stereo". This should disable the auto-noise reduction and allow your client to actually hear the music. Without it, they will only hear the dialogue. 

Also, things are much better if everyone on the call uses headphones. 

I actually use pretty much the same setup described previously and it works well. If you are willing to invest a little money, upgrading from a T-Tap to a used Ultrastudio 4K will open up an easier workflow with the full duplex video card. Also, I have found that grabbing the audio from a monitor's output is far from ideal - the audio circuitry is normally really bad and unbalanced leading to degraded quality and potential hum. HDMI audio de-embedders can be better, but can also introduce added latency and tend to fall in the cheap/bad category. 

Get yourself a video interface with balanced out or digital out and you'll notice the latency is better and the sound quality is better to your speakers. As stated above, a duplex card allows you to route the output to the input for easier routing. I use Blackmagic cards as they work with just about everything including Resolve. 

-Robert

 

Thanks Robert.

Sounds like I should source an Ultrasound 4K!

Would you be able to outline the routing of video and audio using a BM box?  And then how I get clean audio down the Zoom line to my director, mixed with my voice?

My kit is iMac (plus a Dell monitor to the left), outputs to T-Tap, outputs to JVC monitor via BNC, audio outputs from JVC into mixer and out to speakers.

Zoom audio comes in from iMac headphone port plugged into mixer and out to speakers (or headphones).\

Very much appreciate your time and help with this!

 

 

Yes, you need to turn that off. You're getting feedback from the Mac reading audio from this input AND Loopback getting the same input (I'm guessing). 
j 

The very best solution for Zoom and Avid, I have found is to use BMD Web presenter (fed from the Decklink), thereby turning Avid into a guest itself, as a webcam input. It requires a seperate laptop (to attend yourself at the same time) but the quality for Avid is very good in both picture and audio. I had this installed for remote Producer sessions in the final online, after all other methods proved unsatifactory.

Thanks for this.  Do you think I could feed this from the SDI output of the AJA t-tap?

Does it then go into Zoom and if so how?

Then I join the Zoom session using a laptop?

Do I need to wear headphones to avoid feedback/echo?

Thanks so much for any pointers!

JamesG:

Do you think I could feed this from the SDI output of the AJA t-tap?

Do I need to wear headphones to avoid feedback/echo?

I don't recall any echo/feedback but you could simply mute your Avid room monitors and just listen on zoom. Yes, it will work from any SDI output, too.

JamesG:

Does it then go into Zoom and if so how?

Then I join the Zoom session using a laptop?

BMD's Web Presenter turns any SDI signal into a webcam. It's attached also via usb for it to appear to the pc as such. You simply log into Zoom from Avid and it then joins as though you were using the computer's webcam. Yes, then you join on your seperate laptop as another attendee.

 

Mercer:

The very best solution for Zoom and Avid, I have found is to use BMD Web presenter (fed from the Decklink), thereby turning Avid into a guest itself, as a webcam input. It requires a seperate laptop (to attend yourself at the same time) but the quality for Avid is very good in both picture and audio.

Same here, but using an iMac, not a laptop.

"Avid" is one participant, I am a second one, then invite whoever needs to attend to the session. Advantage is that I am seeing/hearing the very same picture and sound as the other recipients, with the same (minor) delay.

Ah I see - thisis for presenting cuts I guess - but you couldn't edit all day in that setup presumably because of the delay?

I'm looking for a solution where I have a director on zoom with me all day while I edit - for which Zoom screensharing is perfect apart from him not getting great audio. I just need to get him great audio without disturbing my own workflow...