I can't comment on the film industry as I haven't edited anything in that field but I have a few years experience with one of Australia's 3 Main broadcasters. 

Someone mentioned 58k or there abouts, as the most they've heard of, I've definitely heard of higher, I'm in fact on higher than that. 

Having said that, a company my wife works for has recently hired their first full time editor (A step in the right direction) but I think they are getting paid around 50K. I don't recall if that's including super. 

Editors on the current reality shows are getting somewhere around $60-70 per hour as a base. I think that's pretty typical of freelance rates about the place, in Sydney at least. In Brisbane it's far more dire.  

Where I am, we all edit on Avid, but I'm plenty comfortable on FCP. I do prefer MC, but I'm not silly enough to assume I'll be able to work on it all the time. Given what's going on with FCP currently, I know there are a few production companies preparing to move to MC or Premiere. But that's another subject. 

For me, I'd love to move overseas and expand my horizons but it doesn't feel like it's a very good time to be going into Europe or the US and taking work from the locals. 

I'm also aware of how hard it is to move onto your next gig in Australia if you get "outside" the industry. Most jobs seem to come about from who you know, not what you know.

 Whilst it's true that there are a lot of people willing to do anything and get paid anything for a foot in, I also get incredibly frustrated but some of the terrible editors who have been around forever, are on good money and refuse to learn new work-flows and try new things. It works both ways.  

Very recently I witnessed some severe undercutting. We were quoting for a job, over a dozen TVC's and a 45 minute TV special, which we quoted a reasonable amount, but were undercut by over 60%. The client claimed they "couldn't ignore the savings". So in the end they are paying a small production house 11k for 16+ TV Commercials and a 45 minute TV special.

As for comments about guilds and unions, I joined ASE for the reasons mentioned by others. Not only that, it's paid for itself many times over through the work I have received from their forums. I just wish the forums where a little more active. 

Sorry for the giant post. 

 

 

Laptopeditor:

You are in New York City and that's what they're paying ?

Sometimes the larger markets pay less, outside the top tier.  So many systems and people available pushes prices down.  For example, I can get a higher rate for my FCP/MC suite than many places in larger markets because of simple supply and demand.

Anthony - While I am sure Australia is a great place to live, gotta give Montreal a thumbs up.  Went there several times to visit Softimage for the early DS days and there is really nothing bad I can say about it (I was there in August and early September, of course).

Andrew - you are so right.  

 

I left Sydney in the mid 80s and have been working freelance in Munich since the early 90s. I've kept half an eye on the Australian scene since then, worked a bit in Brisbane and gone to the odd documentary conference. It seems that only SBS and ABC commission the sorts of productions I work on and I'd guestimate that their production slate would be in the tens of hours a year. And that isn't enough to occupy the many very good Australian editors. And no reason for me to up sticks and go back to Australia.

While some on this thread bemoan the lack of respect that some have for editors, producers and commissioning editors here are telling me how they've finally (re?)realised how important editors are for productions. And how much time and money they've wasted using "junior editors". That's a nice feeling

On the "form a production company" front - yes, but make sure you can actually get commissions or funding or investment. Or one of your partners is independently wealthy and doesn't mind carrying the company till that big sale at Sundance or bankruptcy, whichever comes first.

My estimate of Australia is that there simply isn't enough money in the industry. If you like your job in spite of the wages keep doing it in one form or other. If you don't find an out at your earliest opportunity.

switthaus:

gotta give Montreal a thumbs up.

...Hi Scott: As a native Montrealer, I have to give the city a big thumbs down ! Montreal has the most disgusting roadways, which will collapse on top of you and kill you at any time ! Montrealers pay the most for their driver's permit in all of North America, yet the roads are in the worst possible shape you can't even imagine ! There is very poor, thin Avid support in this part of North America - even though Quebec editors are by far using MC over FCP. Language discrimination is a daily fact in that society to the point of all aspects of Quebec life being affected - Especially business ! Editor wages in Montreal are a sick joke ! Editing pay in Montreal is even worse than Australia if I go by earlier posts. The Avid DS was written and created @ SoftImage in Montreal. I went to church with the gentleman who was head of Avid's software development there. This is where I got to originally sit down and play with the totally amazing Avid DS Nitris system a few years back. (Most amazing and complete online NLE I have ever used). 

Avid had quite a eclectic group of software engineers writing away in different work groups on Avid DS at the time. The Engineers were all young men and woman. Geniuses - weird gamers folks. I was greatly impressed with the whole operation. If you want to hike, camp, swim, skate, ski, sit on open terrace restaurants and talk about politics, then Montreal is the place to be. If you want to earn a good living in post production, then AVOID at all costs.

Mark Job

RodneyinMunich:

On the "form a production company" front - yes, but make sure you can actually get commissions or funding or investment. Or one of your partners is independently wealthy and doesn't mind carrying the company till that big sale at Sundance or bankruptcy, whichever comes first.

If you can't find a rich partner who is free with his money [Please, send me his name if you know any],  I'd advise anyone starting a production company to partner with a marketing type.   As creative people, we tend to hang out with other creative people.  But most creative types loathe the selling part of the business.   You need at least one person in your partnership who is good at going out and getting clients and projects.   Right now, I probably spend 40% of my time trying to bring in new projects...and I'm supposed to be the creative guy!    I would love to just concentrate on production and leave the selling to a partner who likes it and is good at it. 

Anthony Ellison:

Mark Job - are you getting all of the work in Canada? What are you working on that's paying so well? Should I be thinking about moving to Montreal?

Hi Anthony: No ! Avoid at all costs ! I no longer live and work out of Montreal. Montreal is not a place to be in the post production industry. Montreal is a place for American films to shoot (Barney's Vision), but the US productions bring along their own editors or just send the digitized footage down South to LA as they shoot. Montreal has one great lab which is a part of Technicolor (The old Astral-Belleview Pathe labs), and Mel Oppenheimer's Panavision Rental - Michel Trudell Cameras. (Mel has the original 3 strip technicolor camera used on The Wizard of Oz sitting in his office at Cite de Havre. (Montreal) (Mel's private movie camera collection is legendary).

Mark Job

jwrl:

For some time I've been seriously considering retirement because like you, Tim, for me the industry in this country has become too hard.  At my age I can retire, but I know that within a few weeks I'd be bored witless, so I'm still just "weighing my options".

 

That would be a shame JWRL. i'd miss your wise postings on here and on the Screen Editors forum, although it's a little quiet over there these days

SIMONB:

jwrl:

For some time I've been seriously considering retirement because like you, Tim, for me the industry in this country has become too hard.  At my age I can retire, but I know that within a few weeks I'd be bored witless, so I'm still just "weighing my options".

....Hi JWRL: What also concerns me is what is going to happen as soon as YouTube and Google bring out their online video editing NLE system ? These two major players have been working on this idea for quite some time, and this literally has the power to reduce our working market by at least 75 % ! Once producers get a handle on this application, then features films will be cut in their offices by an assistant secretary. Where does this leave the professional post house and editor ? How will NLE companies compete in that kind of a market geography ? I know there will be directors who will stick with the some pro editors and a few major post houses, but what about the younger directors and producers ? Will they have the same view or preferances toward our market ? I doubt it.

Mark Job

Laptopeditor:

What also concerns me is what is going to happen as soon as YouTube and Google bring out their online video editing NLE system ? These two major players have been working on this idea for quite some time, and this literally has the power to reduce our working market by at least 75 % ! Once producers get a handle on this application, then features films will be cut in their offices by an assistant secretary.

You don't have to wait!  A few years back I worked on a feature that the director effectively cut in his bedroom on FCP, then sent me his cuts to copy exactly in Avid.  No, I'm not kidding.  He was most agrieved when I refused to be credited as editor, too!

It could have worked if he'd known what he was doing, but he didn't.  He was a first time writer/director, and hadn't the slightest clue about cutting.  The end result has never been released.  Even if he'd known what he was about I still wouldn't have enjoyed the process, but at least there would have been something to show for it.

I believe that the wheel will inevitably turn as long as you can hold in there.  When Da Vinci created the Mona Lisa painters had to be part chemist and the process was expensive.  Nowadays anyone can go down to their local artist's supply store and buy anything they want.  In fact all you really need is Photoshop.  There are precious few masterpieces being created though.  Skills will ultimately be recognised.

Back in the '60s and '70s I used to work on a lot of variety and music programs.  It's something I enjoy cutting.  Just recently I was given a recording session of three songs from a new stage musical being developed.  It was handed to me with "Have a go, but I don't think there's anything that can be done with it."

I think the three songs are some of the best work that I've done.  More importantly, so do the producers and the stage director.  They're being used as part of a marketting kit, but I would be very surprised if they didn't get wider coverage.

I then found out why they had been so concerned.  An editor (read "owner of a well known NLE" here) had cut other footage associated with the same project.  He had better material to work with than I'd had, but the results were abysmal.

I'm now reworking that cut as well.

PS:  Thanks for the kind thoughts, Simon.

Laptopeditor:

Once producers get a handle on this application, then features films will be cut in their offices by an assistant secretary. Where does this leave the professional post house and editor ?

 

Making the tea and doing secretarial work ?

NICKB:

Making the tea and doing secretarial work ?

....At half the wage the producer now pays his current secretary/editor

Mark Job

Well if your willing to work for poor pay for producers who don't value your skills as a pro editor

Secretary's in australia get payed same as a Level 9 Editor and a Level 14 editor (which is highest level) only gets about $1,200 more per year.....its a frigging joke.

Well until editors as a GROUP band together and try and do something about it, nothing will change. I read somewhere that the ASE (apparently) tried to combine with the unions and standardise freelance wages some years ago but got surprisingly little support from editors. Too many people looking after their own patch I suspect. 

 

I've known isolated cases of editors getting together at the ABC, Channel 9, Fox etc and demanding higher pay, but usually you're talking $5 an hour or some ridiculously low amount. As others have pointed out, rates have barely budged since the early 90s, not just in Australia but in the UK also. There is a growing lack of respect for the craft generally. Maybe as more people get burned by inexperienced juniors this will change for the better, or maybe the bottom line will always win out. I don't know

Agreed!