Latest post Wed, Nov 10 2010 10:16 PM by LewS. 25 replies.
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  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 1:14 AM

    May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    I like this camera - Panasonic AG-HMC80 AVCCAM .

    I noticed under support and resources that there are guides for using avchd in Final Cut Pro, Express, and I-Movie.  No mention of MC.

    So I am curious if anyone knows of issues of using avchd footage shot with the compression the HMC80 uses  - MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 high profile encoding ? 

    ......   which Panasonic says  which provides a doubling of bandwidth efficiency and improved video performance over the older MPEG-2 compression based formats (e.g. HDV) – so recordings look clean and crisp, even during fast motion, without image degradation or dropouts..

     

    Dell m4600, i7-2820qm, nvidia Quadro 2000M, driver 8.17.12.6696, 16gRam, Win7Pro [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 1:31 AM In reply to

    • Tom Pearson
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    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    you will also need to fall in love with transcoding as you will be transcoding everything you shoot with that camera codec

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  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 1:33 AM In reply to

    • Tom Pearson
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    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    just buy a panasonic 170 or a used 200 p2 and never look back the cost will be close or less for the 200 used

    Mac Pro 3.5 gig 6 core 64 gig ram D700 radons with ssd os drive with a 20 tb raid, Artist Mix and Artist color Artist control [view my complete system specs]

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  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 2:00 AM In reply to

    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    Dave Messinger:
    which Panasonic says  which provides a doubling of bandwidth efficiency and improved video performance over the older MPEG-2 compression based formats (e.g. HDV) – so recordings look clean and crisp, even during fast motion, without image degradation or dropouts..
    Curious to know if Panasonic also include the disclaimer that they seem to regularly use these days that the codec they are using is only licenced for private use?

  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 4:21 AM In reply to

    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    Dave, don't do it.  AVCHD cameras are great if you want to shoot some stuff and then connect it to your TV and watch them back or create a disc for playback using the Sony PMB software (PC only). 

    If you need to edit with it, iMovie supposedly supports it natively as you've found out.  But, using it in Avid is an absolute beast.  I recently discovered the nastiness of AVCHD in Avid. 

    Here was my workflow, the ultimate goal in the immediate future is to create wmv files with TC burn so the client can review the footage and make shot decisions:

    1)  My client is Mac based so, the PMB software was not an option.  So, I copied all of the files from the two cameras I received onto the Unity Partition for this project.  That was a good couple of hours.

    2)  I had to search the internet for a software that would play and encode the .MTS files on the Mac.  I found one that would convert them to QT.mov with either DIVX or H264 codec. 

    3)  The conversion took a very long time, there was a lot of footage - to the tune of 15 hrs.  I set it up as a Batch in the Converter software and let it go over a weekend.

    4)  When I got back onto the project, I had to then Import the converted QT files - I opted to import in SD because of the amount of footage involved.  Again, I set it up and let it go over night.

    5)  The next step was to sequence the clips together and put the TC effect on it.  The sequence for one camera was over 8 hrs long!  So, knowing the client wouldn't want to scrub through and 8 hr long wmv file, I subbed it out into roughly 30 mins chunks.

    6)  I set up a Watch Folder on the encoder and proceeded to export the clips as a QTref.  Each 30 min seq would automatically render as it exports, but each one takes about 40-45 mins before the encoder even picks it up.  So, it's another set it up and leave it overnight job.  

    So, the story here is if you do get a project with AVCHD footage better hope you don't have a quick turnaround deadline. 

     

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 1:11 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    As of now, on Windows, Edius or Edius Neo seems to be the best solution for dealing directly with AVCHD. Windows 7 with its Media Player will play back the files.

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  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 2:24 PM In reply to

    • Lembit Soobik
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    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    While I dont have a Mac and I am not sure how different the Panasonic from a Canaon is (I have Canon HF10 and Win-7), I am really quite happy with AVCHD files with MC5.

    I did have problems importing the files to Liquid - had to write a pgm to batch-convert. Now, with MC5 I just drag the files to a bin, and that's it. Oh, yes, handles have to be done, but with help of this list I can now do that with a few keystrokes.

    You may argue that it takes a while to import to the bin, but I find it a lot faster than from a tape.

    And once they are in the bin, edit and output is all the same and no problem (as far as I can see - being a beginner in MC)

    just my 2 c

    Lembit

    MC 2018.5 on Windows 10// HP Z800 WS: 2 x Xeon X5570, 48 GB RAM, Quadro M4000 32GB, disks: 1 x 500 GB SATA 7200 = System/ 1 x 1 TB Samsung 840... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 3:47 PM In reply to

    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    Both Edius and AVCHD are mediocre for me. I am not strict about the 2nd though.

    Buy better a DSLR and enjoy unbelievable images with minimum cost Dave.

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  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 4:52 PM In reply to

    • the_dark
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    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    We have a bunch of the Panasonic HMC40 cameras, same electronics different body, for beginning student use. They're alright little cameras but do have a couple of things I'm unhappy with. First, the cameras are terrible wih low light expect to be using gain or a lot of instruments. Second, is the auto macro focus feature that cannot be turned off, even in manual focus. It's possible these two issues were fixed with the HMC80, I actually wanted the HMC80 but it's release date came too late. I do like that they added the ability to record in SD480i on the HMC80. Wish the HMC40 could do that.

    Regarding the transcoding time, it hasn't bothered us. Avid MC5 will transcode during import so no need for an external transcode step. We're using new middle of the line computers and the transcode during import time is still much faster than tape-based logging plus capturing. Panasonic packages a media player and copy utility so you can preview before import. It's an okay application. They also package Edius but I tossed that without a second glance. It's nice that the AVCCAM footage is small becuase it's easier and faster for our intro students to make personal backups.

    All that said I think these are great learning/hobby cameras, which is exactly what they were made for. They are not production quality, even for wedding videography (j/k), cameras.

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  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 7:09 PM In reply to

    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    the_dark:
    Avid MC5 will transcode during import so no need for an external transcode step.

    I'm going to guess that not all AVCHD formats are created equally.  My experience has been with Sony cameras and the raw native .mts files wouldn't even play using VLC Player or MPEG StreamClip.  Transcoding to QT files was necessary before Importing was possible, plus I was using MC v4.

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 8:20 PM In reply to

    • flaps15
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    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    I can tell you about my experience using the i phone 4. I shot some stuff off the cuff Saturday and was unsure at the time how to get it out and into MC. But after a bit of pointing in the right direction from Carl, I imported the files using AMA and was able to edit them on the timeline as they were. It was a little slow on some of the 3 frame clips I used, and I was not able to apply any timewarps, but it worked.

    ONce edited I mixed down the video to DNx HD and outputted.

    If I was doing it again though I would probably transcode the material after AMA to give more freedom and options in the edit.

    I didn't check colour balance and I have read elswhere that some have been questioning this, but for my needs it was fine and I have to say relatively painless.

     

    Dave

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  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 11:01 PM In reply to

    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    Kenton.VanNatten:

    the_dark:
    Avid MC5 will transcode during import so no need for an external transcode step.

    I'm going to guess that not all AVCHD formats are created equally.  

    Τhis is absolutely right.

    My experience has been with Sony cameras and the raw native .mts files wouldn't even play using VLC Player or MPEG StreamClip.  

    Use Media Player Classic. Is the best free player.

    Transcoding to QT files was necessary before Importing was possible, plus I was using MC v4.

    At MC5 the import, at least with the samples I have tried.

     

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  • Tue, Oct 26 2010 11:55 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    sverkalo:
    Use Media Player Classic. Is the best free player.

    If you ever want AvidDVD to function correctly then you should avoid all FREE players that can play all formats.
    They will introduce a whole collection of codecs that will take over many of windows native codecs. More to the point, they will increase the chances that AvidDVD will start transcoding material that you thought had been transcoded to a compliant format.

    Regards,
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  • Wed, Oct 27 2010 12:18 AM In reply to

    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    For more than 1 year the only problem I have had with Avid DVD was that I didn't like it.

    All the DVD's I have created with those, played fine where I sent them.

    Now I use Authorung Works. What codecs of playing had to do with those encoding?

    Those codecs, are for read only. And by WMP you have the less codecs available

    on a free player.

    VLC isn't a free player?

    But anyway WMP Classic is better.

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  • Wed, Oct 27 2010 1:15 AM In reply to

    Re: May be falling in love with this camera ! avchd in MC5 - any issues ?

    I find all these comments interesting and useful. VLC is free - at least the version I got.  I had (have) a Panasonic dvc30 and dvc80 - and I really liked the companionship - and the layout.  I bought a Canon XH-A1 - not an S - and have hardly used it - just cause I hated to mix the HDV with DV because of all the Liquid rendering - especially if I was going out to DVD anyway.  Plus the A1 is just HDV to tape - even though it could shoot and live display 1920x1080.

    So the bottom line is I was hoping since I liked my SD Panasonics that this might be the one.  Now I have to re-read and re-think that kind of thinking. I know I will be going tapeless.

    Dell m4600, i7-2820qm, nvidia Quadro 2000M, driver 8.17.12.6696, 16gRam, Win7Pro [view my complete system specs]
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