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  • Sat, Jun 26 2010 10:02 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    BarkinMadd:
    Something Avid is missing from what I can see is the AfterEffects notion of 'precomposition' - where you can essentially tell the program that a certain combination of layers should be rendered independently of other layers and the result included as if it had been done with a video-mixdown.
    Not true.  Collapse all the layers that you want treated as a mixdown into a nest.  You can do this either with the submaster effect or by selecting all the components in segment mode and clicking on the collapse button in the timeline.  Done.

    But citing After Effects in this context points out the underlying issue here - the real elephant in the room.  Avid is not a compositing tool.  It was never intended to be one, but was simply designed to be a very good editor.  The more "flexibility" bolted on to it, the less useful as an editor it will become.

    You can already see this concern being expressed in the thread, Control-key changes in MC5 in the Chat with Avid forum.

    And to colorgrade a PIP, just step into it.

    PS:  For those who don't know, the collapse button is in the button bar at the top of the timeline.  It looks like two sandwiched rectangles over the top of another one.  And to step into a nested effect use the down arrow that you see in the same bar.  Use the up arrow there to step out.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jun 26 2010 11:37 AM In reply to

    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    You are right - this can be done this way. But it's complicated and it involves many steps of work. The fact that Avid has done this over years this way doesn't mean that this is the easiest and user friendly way. Sometimes you have to change because of the evolving world.

     

    And today every editing app should be a compositing tool either. Look at any TV-Programm, at any documentary, at any popular TV program (like f.e. American Idol or in Germany the corresponding DSDS Show). You will see massive amount of compositing work and heavy FX use. If you would have to export/AFX/import/Avid every time - this would be far out of the way to do this work efficiently. I know that some post houses have special FCP suites for that, because it is to complicated and to work intensive to do this with Avid. If Avid wants to be a competitor to FCP in this case (and I hope so) there should be some "new thinking" and reinventing in the FX engine.

     

    Just my opinion.

     

    EOC

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  • Sat, Jun 26 2010 1:44 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    jwrl - I understand that one can collapse several tracks together but I thought we were still bound by the same limitations that would arise from applying an effect to the collapsed tracks (I mean that an effect applied to the collapsed tracks would affect tracks below the collapsed tracks).

    You know what? I'm going to play with this technique a bit more and see if it does what I hope it does.

    As far as whether or not MC should do compositiing - I fail to see why having better FX / compositing tools would make MC a lesser NLE - however - I read that thread you mentioning and can see why many long-time MC users would be going out of their mind just about now with the arbitrary UI changes they made to MC 5 - that really annoys me too!

    MC 2020.12 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2021 | Sapphire 2021 | Mocha Pro 2021 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (20H2) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X (4.1GHz... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Sat, Jun 26 2010 2:12 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    jwrl - unless I'm missing something, using a submaster effect does not 'precompose' the submastered tracks. Here's what I tried:

    1. 3 video tracks

    2. Top track with picture-n-picture, second from top also with picture-n-picture (the two sized to see both)

    3. Now I can see all 3 video layers

    4. Topmost two tracks - apply submaster effect on top two tracks (using the collapse button)

    5. Step into the submaster and apply a Flop to the top track (using Alt + Flop)

    What I hoped for was one of two outcomes:

    a) The top picture-n-picture would Flop but not the second from top (BTW - I wasn't really expecting this based on my experience - I would have had to step into the picture-n-picture to isolate this)

    b) The two tracks within the submaster would Flop but not the third (bottom) layer outside the submaster.

    What I got was all 3 layers Flopping - this is wrong. The submaster effect should work like a pre-compose but it apparently does not. In fairness - I did not repeat this with other effects - maybe my choice of Flop was unfortunate (but I did also try color effect with the same results).

    Something is not right about this but I can't put my finger on it at the moment - more testing required.

    Cheers

    MC 2020.12 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2021 | Sapphire 2021 | Mocha Pro 2021 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (20H2) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X (4.1GHz... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Sun, Jun 27 2010 1:47 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    Bump - anyone else familiar with 'compositing' tricks in MC care to weigh-in?

    MC 2020.12 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2021 | Sapphire 2021 | Mocha Pro 2021 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (20H2) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X (4.1GHz... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Sun, Apr 13 2014 11:23 AM In reply to

    • jpjd
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    editorofchoice:

    They could easily change this if they add a checkbox to every effect like "affect bottom layers". So anyone could choose whether or not he wants to apply the effect to the bottom layers.

    YES YES YES!!!!  Please include this checkbox AVID!  Would be so awesome to have the flexibility!

    What's even stranger is that some effects don't effect the layers underneath (EDGE WIPE EFFECTS) and others do (PUSH EFFECTS).  This inconsistency is confusing.

    It was so nice in FCP to be able to quickly throw a transition on a text clip and have it animate without effecting all the clips below!  If I wanted the effect on the lower clips I would apply as needed (much more flexible!).  I don't like how I'm forced to have it on all the clips just because the effect is on the top layer!  Very limiting.

    My clients have always loved how much polish and finesse I add to their projects at the offline stage.  That's because in Final Cut Pro the effects are implemented well!  Now I know why all my AVID editor friends stay away from working with effects in AVID. It's klunky and could use an update!

    If anyone knows a work around for applying transition effects to text clips without effecting the layers underneath it would be greatly appriciated.  Thanks in advance for the help!

     

    j

     

  • Mon, Apr 14 2014 9:33 AM In reply to

    • IngoSmitt
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    The Checkbox is one possible solution.

    The other possibility is to use the possibility to put Effects on empty layers.

    So ... if you put an effect on a layer containing a clip, the Effect applies only to this layer / clip.

    Then ... if you put an effect on an empty layer above the clips, the effect applies to all layers below the effect.

     

    I think both possibilities would work.

    Ingo

     

  • Mon, Apr 14 2014 11:22 AM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    I'd forgotten I'd posted this question. I was hoping one of the more experienced users would chime-in with an answer. I should try this test with MC 7 just in case what I observed was a bug. If you're looking for more control over titling you should try your hand at Avid FX. 

    MC 2020.12 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2021 | Sapphire 2021 | Mocha Pro 2021 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (20H2) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X (4.1GHz... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Mon, Apr 14 2014 1:33 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    Well - I tried it again with 7.0.3 with the same unsatisfactory results. I wonder if sub master has any practical use other than to declutter the timeline. Lots of readers of this thread but not too much practical advice. Sorry. 

    MC 2020.12 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2021 | Sapphire 2021 | Mocha Pro 2021 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (20H2) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X (4.1GHz... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Mon, Apr 14 2014 3:21 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    Applying an effect to selected layers in Avid is quirky, but it can be done, in different ways, depending on the effect(s) involved, collapsing being one of the techniques, or You may need to videomixdown at intermediate stages, rather unflexible, especially if You need to change something along the way...

    Symphony 21.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Wed, Feb 17 2021 3:14 AM In reply to

    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

     The more "flexibility" bolted on to it, the less useful as an editor it will become.

     

    WOW, that's just not true at all. 

  • Wed, Feb 17 2021 1:30 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    chrixlanier:

     The more "flexibility" bolted on to it, the less useful as an editor it will become.

     

    WOW, that's just not true at all. 

    That quote is from more than 10.5 years ago and Media Composer has become far more flexible since then, however, the comment was in the context of compositing within MC. I would still appreciate a variation of 'precompose' or to be able to limit an effect to the current nest of tracks but there are workarounds as other have noted.

    MC 2020.12 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2021 | Sapphire 2021 | Mocha Pro 2021 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (20H2) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X (4.1GHz... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

    ______________________

    www.nelliedogstudios.com

  • Wed, Feb 17 2021 8:44 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: add effect to top video layer without affecting under layers?

    BarkinMadd:

    chrixlanier:

     The more "flexibility" bolted on to it, the less useful as an editor it will become.

     

    WOW, that's just not true at all. 

    That quote is from more than 10.5 years ago and Media Composer has become far more flexible since then

    Not quite: MC has just been playing catch up with new workflows, cameras, and file formats, and quite slowly compared to the competition. We've seen a GUI restyle which has been a total waste of time and resources, since the interface is essentially the same, and the core functions have not been improved at all, while plenty of decades asked for features have not been delivered

    BarkinMadd:
    however, the comment was in the context of compositing within MC

    and nothing has changed with regards to compositing and effects. I do know that MC is an editing tool, it's not a post tool, but still effects management, which is the core of this thread, is quirky and not improved at all since the '90s

    BarkinMadd:
    I would still appreciate a variation of 'precompose' or to be able to limit an effect to the current nest of tracks

    and so do I

    BarkinMadd:
    but there are workarounds as other have noted.

    workarounds are what make MC unflexible: a versatile tool just works out of the box, no workarounds needed.

    PS by quickly re-reading the last few posts in this thread before clicking the Post button I could notice that I used the word "quirky" in my 2014 post, like I do in this one. Seven years later we're still there, awfully...

    Symphony 21.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

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