Latest post Wed, Nov 19 2008 11:12 PM by jwrl. 29 replies.
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  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 1:42 PM

    • OliverPeters
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    RED news

    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21835

    Make sure you go all the way to the end. - Oliver

     

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 1:58 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: RED news

    In case the first link gets messed up.

    http://tinyurl.com/5ku2vr

    - Oliver

     

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 2:14 PM In reply to

    Re: RED news

    My friend Michael was there for the announcement ....

    http://www.michaelsmith.tv/2008/11/13/red-announcement-holy-crap-this-is-great/

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
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    (wwld)

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 3:10 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: RED news

    Complicating matters even more...

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

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  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 3:13 PM In reply to

    • VGUK2
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    Re: RED news

    But you won't get the cameras for at LEAST a year probably much longer.  Although, enough time for the RED crackheads to get off their boxes on RED Vapour I suppose.

     

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 3:33 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: RED news

    One view is it does complicate matters then another view is it simplifies...

    No more Sony no more Panasonic just RED cameras and R3D files.

     

    Oh Adobe will edit R3D files NATIVELY 

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 5:21 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: RED news

    I think you need to rethink the vaporware comments. Red has delivered between 3,000 and 5,000 working cameras (depending on which estimates you trust). 5,000 cameras is more than all Arri SR 1, 2 and 3 cameras combined. It's twice as many cameras as Panavisions in inventory.

    Even though Red is never a static target, they are delivering product and generally owners are happy. Post guys maybe not so much.

    I think you have to recognize that if you strip away the Kool-aid-induced enthusiasm, what's left is a camera-development company that is riding Moore's law. That's something Sony and Panasonic have failed to do. This is a double-edged sword for Red owners. They get a constantly-improving camera through software updates and an aggressive trade-up policy. The downside is that there are so many cameras in the available pool, that those owners who thought they were going to make a ton of money renting their's out are finding the harsh reality of democratization. In many cases the potential customers already bought their own camera. Not unlike the situation with Avid and FCP.

    - Oliver

     

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 5:46 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: RED news

    You can probably make more money on RED skills (knowledge of workflows etc) than renting out your camera.

    I think Post guys would be very foolish to ignore what RED are upto.

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 6:30 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: RED news

    NICKB:
    You can probably make more money on RED skills (knowledge of workflows etc) than renting out your camera.

    Nick,

    I think you are absolutely right. Unfortunately the RED user community seems to be spilt into two worlds. On one side you have the professionals (working DPs, prod cos, etc.) who are used to film or high-end video workflows. They are used to dealing with labs and facilities and understand and appreciate the resources needed to take advantage of the plusses this camera offers.

    The other side are the small producers and indie filmmakers who barely scraped enough money together for a full package. They have a very DIY frame-of-mind and don't have the budget or understanding of bringing in post specialists. These are generally the kool-aid drinkers who really don't understand what happens past shooting the files. They often don't have the money to do it right and have been seduced by the supposed "ease" of the post workflow with QT references files and so on. These kind of folks get themselves in trouble and are indignant when someone suggests that they take a different route or wants to charge them to fix the dilemma that they've gotten themselves into.

    As a business model, find the first group and avoid the second - unless they are really rich, but stupid ;-)

    - Oliver

     

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 6:47 PM In reply to

    • badweasel
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    Re: RED news

    To clarify.. I wasn't "there" physically - I was "there" as in "on it" the moment Jim dropped the info at 2am in the forums.

    I agree.. RED is serious force in the filmmaking industry.  This announcement firms it up.  I think we're going to be seeing a lot more lower end production companies making really cool movies.  What I like about this is that I can shoot the majority of my movie with my own camera.  Then when it's time to do effects just rent a better "brain" to shoot effects shots.  All the other gear is interchangeable.

    I think the "vaporware" clan are guys who can't really afford it anyway.  Wanna-be owners.

    Also.. it's important to note that according to these dates, they're still basically on schedule to deliver some version of Scarlet when they originally said they would. In my opinion they've kept more promises than any politician.

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 6:50 PM In reply to

    Re: RED news

    I really appreciate what RED is trying to and have already achieved but, I REALLY wished that the apps for processing the RED files should have matured by now - considering the 2nd gen cams have been announced.

    I firmly believe that the limited licensing to Apple and Assimilate hampered this. Oh well - I'm pretty sure we got at least another year to sort things out, find bugs, squash bugs, increase performance, etc.

    MC 2023.8, W11, ASUS z690m, Intel 13900K, MSI 4090 Suprim Liquid, 128GB RAM, Samsung 980 Pro M2 SSD, BM Mini monitor & Dell UP2718Q. MBP 2019, Ventura... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 8:43 PM In reply to

    Re: RED news

    badweasel:
    I think the "vaporware" clan are guys who can't really afford it anyway.  Wanna-be owners.
    A hopelessly inaccurate generalisation in my opinion.

    Here with 1500L, 900R, 700's, EX3's and a Red Camera we still view much of Red's PR as boosting vapourware with early, and not so early adopters being used as Beta testers 6 to 12 months down the track. Thankfully the company is at present exceptionally responsive to feedback.

    To me they also seem to be admitting how wrong they got Red by offering a 100% trade back for the RED on the "vapourware" and including priority positioning in the waiting list.

    Maybe Scarlet will mature their product

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 10:32 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: RED news

    My understanding was that early RED1 owners knew they were beta testers.

    The image i get of RED the company is that they are genuine and are on the side of customers, they should study this company at business schools.

    Just think what Avid would be like if Jim bought them.

  • Thu, Nov 13 2008 10:58 PM In reply to

    Re: RED news

    NICKB:
    My understanding was that early RED1 owners knew they were beta testers.
    To me  beta testers find problems with the changes or implimentation of hard or software. Vapourware beta testers seem obliged to find all the basic functions that a product does not have because the supplier had little understanding of the industries required functionality.

    NICKB:
    Just think what Avid would be like if Jim bought them.
    What like Red 1.  Cough up your deposit on vapourware 15 months before the Beta version is available. Eventually get a scarcely beta ready product whose development is kneecapped by an exclusive arrangement with a technically challenged industry medium weight.

    That said I love the Companies energy and commitment to make it right....... eventually.

  • Fri, Nov 14 2008 9:57 AM In reply to

    • VGUK2
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    Re: RED news

    badweasel:

    To clarify.. I wasn't "there" physically - I was "there" as in "on it" the moment Jim dropped the info at 2am in the forums.

    I agree.. RED is serious force in the filmmaking industry.  This announcement firms it up.  I think we're going to be seeing a lot more lower end production companies making really cool movies.  What I like about this is that I can shoot the majority of my movie with my own camera.  Then when it's time to do effects just rent a better "brain" to shoot effects shots.  All the other gear is interchangeable.

    I think the "vaporware" clan are guys who can't really afford it anyway.  Wanna-be owners.

    Also.. it's important to note that according to these dates, they're still basically on schedule to deliver some version of Scarlet when they originally said they would. In my opinion they've kept more promises than any politician.

    You are wrong on several counts.  The announcement actually shows they know less about the business than we/they thought.

    RED is a "force" in the filmmaking community by numbers not by quality and reliability of product.  They've got a long way to go before they are a "serious" competitor to Sony and Arri et al.  

    I could afford a Scarlet model fully fitted out but no model suits any of my needs in a camera.  Sony's Xdcam range offers a better fit with my needs than any of the RED cameras.  I couldn't give a monkeys about anything over 2k let alone 9k and 28k.  If you want 1080p or 2k on RED that means windowing the sensor then your real resolution drops like a stone and the DoF increases dramatically.

    I think RED missed a trick with the resolution race.  The big market is HD/2k and a rugged production ready camera with large sensor, moderate compression and RAW 12bit with good dynamic range would really have set the cat amongst the pigeons.  Epic FAIL on RED's account.

    The modularity is another case of smoke and mirrors as most owners will buy a selection of components to meet their need and never change.  Oh and the beautiful rendering don't show what a dog's dinner the camera will look like when all the interconnecting cables are draped all over the place.

    Instead the bizarre resolution race increases the nightmare of post production, not to mention most of the data won't either make it to the screen or the viewing public won't be able to see it even if it does.

    I thought the RED One was an excellent beginning and when the post production workflow caught up it would be an awesome proposition.  The resolution game is not where it's at for most productions from pro-sumer level to corporate and TV.  The big 3 can continue to rest easily.

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