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  • Thu, Apr 3 2008 6:32 PM

    • sean90291
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    external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    My new system has a port for an external eSATA drive. I have an internal RAID 0 array, but I like the idea of being able to keep a project on external drives and swap it out as I switch projects.

    Is there any downside to running a project (1080p) from an external eSATA drive through the eSATA connection on the back of my PC? What drives have you found that offer the same speed and reliability as an internal eSATA RAID 0 might be offering.

    (I'm assuming eSATA is faster than Firewire 800.)

    Thanks for any advice!

    p.s. (I posted same question on dvxuser, but I think I'll try to stick to posting questions in Avid's forum...both to support the traffic of the site, and also I think there may be more people interested in responding to Avid related questions)

     

     

     

  • Thu, Apr 3 2008 11:34 PM In reply to

    • Freddy
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    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    Hi, It's not that easy.. The bottleneck is most likely in the drive, not the Cable.
    Here is a good example of the speed of different drives.

    http://techreport.com/articles.x/14380/6

    So don't expect to run uncompress or low compression HD on just one drive.
    Then you must consider multiple video-streams, and audio-streams. You also need Headroom (you can't max-out the drives).
    That means the drive have to read from several different positions at the same time.
    So, eSATA, USB, Firewire 400 or 800 depends if there is a good raid in the other end.


    http://www.freddylinks.com <-- Find EVERYTHING Avid and Tutorials there. Probably the most comprehensive Avid only webpage with over 2000+ Links to Avid Video Tutorials and Avid Information for Media Composer, NewsCutter, Symphony, Interplay, ISIS, Unity MediaNetwork, ProTools, Avid Artist Series. Completely free of fees, registrations, and ads.

  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 12:33 AM In reply to

    • Tugger
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    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

     while Freddy's point should be considered, I use external eSATA drives for DVCProHD projects regularly with no problems. I've found Seagate Barracuddas (7200rpm) to be dependable and relatively cheap ($200US or less for a 500 gig) I've even run DVCProHD projects off a 5400rpm USB2 pocket drive with only occasional stuttering (wouldn't recommend it though) Of course I'm also working off a laptop (so no internal raid available) and without any DNA device, but even stacking a couple graphics on top of a video layer, and playing out full screen on a second monitor I still get real time.

    FWIW

    MediaComposer 2018.X on HP8770 Windows10pro / MediaComposer 5.5 on HP8740.eSATA external media drives. Samsung 24" computer monitors when in office... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 2:30 AM In reply to

    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    I just bought an internal Seagate Barracuda 3.5" drive (SATA 300, 7200rpm, 16MB cache). Based on the specs, I had thought it'd be fast enough to support DVCProHD. It works great with Avid (all the frames are there), but when I create a full quality quicktime reference, the drive can only manage to play back 20FPS (it's 720p 24fps footage). Is there anything anyone can recommend trying with this current drive to get more out of it? Or is a single SATA drive just not fast enough to support full quality DVCProHD footage?

    Thanks for your help.

    -Matt

    Avid Media Composer, Dell Precision 380, Pentium D 3.0GHz processor, 4GB RAM, nVidia Quadro FX 3450 with driver 91.85 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 3:08 AM In reply to

    • sean90291
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    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    Well based on the article that Freddy refers us to, the Barracuda doesn't come near the top of the tested drives. And still Tugger is able to get real-time DVCProHD playback off his Barracuda. I wonder if PaintBallDude would be getting real time off his QuickTime files with a Western Digital Caviar, which seems to win on all the tests.

    That said, I don't get real-time QuickTime playback on giant video files either, and that's with the internal RAID 0, 4GB RAM and a quad-core processor. I don't worry about it, since my Avid Media Composer runs with DNxHD 175X  without a hiccup.

    As for bottlenecks in the drive, I'd be looking for an external RAID 0. So there should be no bottleneck in the drive itself. Is this how most of you are managing projects now that file sizes are getting so much larger? Swapping out external RAIDs?

     

     

     

  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 3:46 AM In reply to

    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    Thanks for the reply - I just did a transcode to DNxHD 90, and then DNxHD 60. A quicktime reference with DNxHD 90 was just about there, with a stutter every once in a while. A reference with DNxHD 60 was perfect.

    -Matt


    Avid Media Composer, Dell Precision 380, Pentium D 3.0GHz processor, 4GB RAM, nVidia Quadro FX 3450 with driver 91.85 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 3:59 AM In reply to

    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    I use an external eSATA drive for DVCPROHD without any problems.


    MC 7.0 Symphony 7.0 Win 7 64bit 1 x XW 8600 quad 16gig ram 480gig SSD FX 5400 4 1tb 32 mb cache drives Pro tools 10 Avid fx Avid 3d Matrox... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 5:12 PM In reply to

    • Freddy
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    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    Here is a good tool for PC to check the "Real" drive speed:

    http://www3.softimage.com/DS2/right/download/utils/hdspeed.htm

    Follow the instructions and it's pretty safe to use.

    YesBig Smile

    http://www.freddylinks.com <-- Find EVERYTHING Avid and Tutorials there. Probably the most comprehensive Avid only webpage with over 2000+ Links to Avid Video Tutorials and Avid Information for Media Composer, NewsCutter, Symphony, Interplay, ISIS, Unity MediaNetwork, ProTools, Avid Artist Series. Completely free of fees, registrations, and ads.

  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 5:27 PM In reply to

    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    I have a rack with 5 eSATA drive bays - removable trays (Kingwin K-8xx) with Seagate Baracuda 7200.xx. This allows me to use them as individual drives, or if necessary I can set them up as striped. I dedicate a drive or two or more to a project and capture HDV or Beta SP 1:1 to these drives. I begin editing off these but eventually transcode my selected clips to DNxHD145 and save those files for editing on a 8x500 RAID 5. I have no trouble editing a couple layers of HDV off the eSATAs. I trust the Seagates more than any other brand. I've had trouble in the past with others. The eSATA removables are going through a port multiplier which is plugged into one port of a Sonnet controller. I had previously used a Promise eSATA card with lots of annoying problems. The Sonnet is a lot more $$$ but worth it IMHO.

    MC 7.0.2 iMac 4Ghz Intel Core i7 OSX 10.10.3, 32GB 1600Mhz DDR3, AMD radeon R9 M295X 4096MB, Retina 5k 27" + Dell 24", Flanders Scientific LM... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 6:11 PM In reply to

    • sean90291
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    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    rfmeredith:

    I have a rack with 5 eSATA drive bays - removable trays (Kingwin K-8xx) with Seagate Baracuda 7200.xx. This allows me to use them as individual drives, or if necessary I can set them up as striped. I dedicate a drive or two or more to a project and capture HDV or Beta SP 1:1 to these drives. I begin editing off these but eventually transcode my selected clips to DNxHD145 and save those files for editing on a 8x500 RAID 5. I have no trouble editing a couple layers of HDV off the eSATAs. I trust the Seagates more than any other brand. I've had trouble in the past with others. The eSATA removables are going through a port multiplier which is plugged into one port of a Sonnet controller. I had previously used a Promise eSATA card with lots of annoying problems. The Sonnet is a lot more $$ but worth it IMHO.

     

    I have never created my own RAID before. It's always been an off-the-shelf RAID, or the guy who built my computer did the internal one.

    If I bought two identical Barracudas and put them in separate drive enclosures, could I stripe them as a single RAID? Would they have to go in the same enclosure?

    It appears there are enclosures specifically designed for two drives in RAID configuration like this one:

    http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3516741&CatId=2780

    But I see the enclosure you're talking about here:

    http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3142352&CatId=285

    Very different sort of thing and I'm not sure what one does over the other. I already have an eSATA port on the back of my computer (using a P5E WS Professional motherboard).

    I'm not sure if that enclosure is only for two drives. Looks like this something I can do myself though. I'm just a bit inexperienced with hard drives and their configuration!

     

     

     

     

  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 8:52 PM In reply to

    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?


    sean90291:
    If I bought two identical Barracudas and put them in separate drive enclosures, could I stripe them as a single RAID? Would they have to go in the same enclosure?
    Not necessarily. Two of my removable drives are striped as RAID 0 and they are in separate trays. The striping is done with Windows.


    sean90291:
    Very different sort of thing and I'm not sure what one does over the other.
    The only advantage to the removable trays is that you can have a whole shelf full of drives in removable trays and you only put the ones in that you need for the project. So if you might be using or archiving a lot of projects on separate drives, this is a llittle more elegant than having everything on Firewire drives that you have to plug in and out, all with their own power supplies etc. But rememeber you need a separate eSATA port for each drive. You can do this with a port multiplier but you have to find out if your single eSATA port will support a port multiplier. Some do and some don't. If it doesn't then you need to get a card that does, or limit yourself to an option that requires only a single eSATA connection.

    Check out the G-RAID DRIVES, they are top-rated. Also check out Addonics, they make a nice "tower" that will hold four removable drives, and they offer a lot of optoins for cards, connectors etc. if you want to go that way.

    But if you just want a reliable plug and play solution, check out G-Raid.

    Note - Don't believe it when anyone says eSATAs are "hot-swappable." In my experience there is no such thing as a hot-swappable eSATA drive. You at least have to go through "safely remove hardware" before removing any external drive, particularly eSATAs. When I first started using them, I lost data by just unplugging an eSATA drive. Windows views them as system drives which is different from Firewire or USB.

    MC 7.0.2 iMac 4Ghz Intel Core i7 OSX 10.10.3, 32GB 1600Mhz DDR3, AMD radeon R9 M295X 4096MB, Retina 5k 27" + Dell 24", Flanders Scientific LM... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 9:13 PM In reply to

    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    Note - Don't believe it when anyone says eSATAs are "hot-swappable." In my experience there is no such thing as a hot-swappable eSATA drive. You at least have to go through "safely remove hardware" before removing any external drive, particularly eSATAs. When I first started using them, I lost data by just unplugging an eSATA drive. Windows views them as system drives which is different from Firewire or USB.

    I had a similar experience. I have a Wiebetech RTX-100INT 5.25" trayless removable SATA drive bay. The other day I accidently took out one drive and inserted another, while an application was open. Windows messed up the file structure on the second drive (it took name and index from the first drive).

     

    However, with this trayles bay, hookep up to the internal SATA bus, I don't see the option to remove that hardware (at least I don't get the green icon in the task bar). is there another way to unmount a drive in XP?

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 9:24 PM In reply to

    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

    I think the problem is that it is hooked up to the internal bus. On the other hand, I recently switched to the Sonnet card with a port multiplier and now I don't see ANY  eSATAs on the "safely remove" list. I can see three other USB and Firewie drives but no eSATAs. So... I guess I will be shutting down to swap any of those drives.

    MC 7.0.2 iMac 4Ghz Intel Core i7 OSX 10.10.3, 32GB 1600Mhz DDR3, AMD radeon R9 M295X 4096MB, Retina 5k 27" + Dell 24", Flanders Scientific LM... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 4 2008 9:30 PM In reply to

    • scocklin
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    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

     I have a Tempo SATA E4P card and a Sonnet 5Bay that was advertised to be hot swappable but when I first tried it didn't work. Tech support told me that the hot swappable function will only work with MACS; I don't have a MAC (yet) so I don't know if it is true, would be nice to find out though.

    HP-Z6-G4 Workstation, 1-Xeon 4216 16 core processor, 64GB 2933MHz DDR4 ECC Memory, P4000 GPU, 512GB NVMe 1TB NVMe, Thunderbolt 3 controller, 1 Blackmagic... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Apr 5 2008 4:14 PM In reply to

    • sean90291
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    Re: external eSATA drives for HD editing?

     

    rfmeredith:


    sean90291:
    If I bought two identical Barracudas and put them in separate drive enclosures, could I stripe them as a single RAID? Would they have to go in the same enclosure?
    Not necessarily. Two of my removable drives are striped as RAID 0 and they are in separate trays. The striping is done with Windows.


    sean90291:
    Very different sort of thing and I'm not sure what one does over the other.
    The only advantage to the removable trays is that you can have a whole shelf full of drives in removable trays and you only put the ones in that you need for the project. So if you might be using or archiving a lot of projects on separate drives, this is a llittle more elegant than having everything on Firewire drives that you have to plug in and out, all with their own power supplies etc. But rememeber you need a separate eSATA port for each drive. You can do this with a port multiplier but you have to find out if your single eSATA port will support a port multiplier. Some do and some don't. If it doesn't then you need to get a card that does, or limit yourself to an option that requires only a single eSATA connection.

    Check out the G-RAID DRIVES, they are top-rated. Also check out Addonics, they make a nice "tower" that will hold four removable drives, and they offer a lot of optoins for cards, connectors etc. if you want to go that way.

    This is great information!!!

    Looks like my P5E WS Pro motherboard DOES accept port-multipliers too, so I'm going to look into this. I'd never even heard of a "port multiplier" before. By the time I'm 80 I'll have it all figured out.

     

     

     

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