Latest post Mon, Aug 29 2022 7:44 PM by Job ter Burg. 21 replies.
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  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 2:58 PM

    Color Space gets compressed on export

    I'm working on a cartoon show that sends me .png files for each shot (in animation a shot is referred to as a scene for some reason). I import the .png (which is RGB) into Avid using the color space YCbCr 709. I thought I should switch to RGB 709 for this solution, but that didn't work.

    The problem is, everything looks normal when editing. But on export, the colors get slightly washed out. It doesn't seem to matter what settings I use. I've attached a screen shot of the color change.

    So the .png's are imported as an image sequence. Again it looks and plays fine in the sequence. But there doesn't seem to be an export setting that maintains its color space.

  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 3:12 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    What are your import and export settings, how does the clip look on the Waveform or RGB Parade inside MC's Color Correction mode, and which player are you using?

    RGB709 projects are referring to 4:4:4, not full swing vs legal/studio swing (older versions of MC used 'RGB' vs 601/709 to describe the difference between full swing computer images and legal video signals, confusingly).

    Inside MC, you will always be working in legal/studio swing. You may use some trickery to work in full range, but you will run into issues at several points. Common workflow is to import from full swing to legal swing, then exporting 'as is', and then usually software players will note the exported video is flagged as Rec709 legal and will correct for that upon playback. If you're exporting to png/tiff/targa/jpg or other graphics, you'll normally want to tick the box that expands from legal video to full range.

    You may find this link interesting, even though it refers to old/classic import/export modules in earliers versions of MC.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 3:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    I've read through that old document but to be honest, this is slightly more over my head than your knowledge base. I've been on Premiere Pro for the past five years and I feel I lost all my knowledge of Avid. I've attached some photos.

    Import

    I was importing at a resolution of DHxHD HQ.

    Import image sequence settings:

    Do not resize smaller images

    Do not modify, treat as legal range

    Alpha Channel - Ignore

    Alpha Encoding - Uncompressed

    Autodetect Sequentially-Numbered Files - Checkmarked.

    EXPORT SETTINGS

    MP4, HD 1920x1080

    23.976p

    Output Color Space: Rec. 709

    video Levels: Keep as Legal Range

    Codec Family / Compression - H.264

    Color Depth: 8 bit

    Encode Mode: Constant Bit Rate

    Target Bit Rate: 20Mbps

     

  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 3:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    I'd echo Job's input, and you really need to be looking at scopes to understand where the error is occuring, however, based on what you've written, I'd bet your INPUT settings need to be RGB for those png files, and you may just be mistaken that it looks good in the edit system until export. If you don't have a video I/O monitoring system, you are relying on the GUI monitors which have a whole 'nother set of color calibration idiosyncracies, meaning, you could be fooling yourself if you are evaluating how something looks based on the appearance in the GUI.

    J

    Custom, i9-9900K, AMD 6900XT, 64 GB RAM, m.2 SSD, 8x Fiber to Terrablock, BM SDI 4k, currently running Mac OS 12.6. MC Ultimate 2022.10 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 3:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    yeah I don't have any scopes and whatnot. So how does one choose RGB in input settings? I don't see that in Import Settings.

  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 3:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    Inside media composer, enter Color Correction mode (or the Color Workspace), right-click on one of the three windows, and select Y Waveform monitor or RGB Parade.

     

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 3:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    JoshuaHalifaxNS:

    I was importing at a resolution of DHxHD HQ.

    Import image sequence settings:

    Do not resize smaller images

    Do not modify, treat as legal range

    So this import setting basically says: leave the luminance levels as they are. Which means that if the source is full swing, levels are imported as they are, and are therefore 'illegal' for video. If you have your Source/Record Monitor settings (and Full Screen Display settings) set to the default, the image will actually look quite OK in MC, since the default setting does not adjust for the difference between video levels and computer displays (you can change this by right-clicking the source and or record monitor and choose 'target display color space' -- and/or in FullScreen Display settings).

    So normally, I would select the option 'Scale from full range to legal range' – assuming a full range source file – which would compress the full range of the source into the video domain.

    Upon export, you can either choose to "Keep as legal range" and let the player handle it from there, or you can choose "Scale from legal range to full range" which would expand the luminance levels upon export (not sure how different players will behave, and if they will recognize these levels as already being expanded).

     

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 3:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    I can't find that option. I sent a private message. If you're available for zoom meeting I will pay. When I go into color mode, I don't have the option for waveform monitor . Right clicking doesn't give me any options for waveform. 

  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 4:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    Uou need to enter colour correction mode or workspace. that gives you a different UI with 3 images that default to previous clip, current clip, next clip. they all have a drop down menu and you can select to see from a selection of waveforms. The waveform will show the levels of the current clip. Its not in the effects pallette.

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    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET (Retired Early 2022)

     

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  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 4:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    JoshuaHalifaxNS:
    If you're available for zoom meeting I will pay.

    Sorry, I don't do that, that's not what these forums are for.

    If you click Windows, choose, Workspaces, and select Color, you should have Color Correction mode open up, with three image viewers visible in the Composer window (rather than just the classic two, Source and Record).

     

    Then, right-click any one of them, e.g. the left one, then select Y Waveform or RGB Parade.

     

    https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/troubleshooting/en266287

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 4:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    Yeah I don't have that option. This is getting pretty frustrating. I really appreciate the help.

  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 4:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    After selecting that Color Workspace (it was renamed between the previous 2018 interface and the current 2019+ interface), if the three-viewer Composer doesn't show up, select Windows->Restore To Default. That should bring up the default Color Correction mode.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 4:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    Here is a screenshot.

  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 5:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

    Here is scope 1 and then scope 2 when I put it into an RGB sequence. It still is a bit washed out. 

     

  • Mon, Aug 29 2022 5:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space gets compressed on export

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