I just have to tell a real world story, going on right this very moment as I write it, that illustrates the real world never-ending slow-motion disaster that has been Titler+.   I know I’ve complained here a lot, but it just feels like Avid just doesn’t grasp how serious the problems in real world situations the Titler+ failures are, and why this will lead to people leaving the platform.

I’ve been cutting a feature doc for the past 18 months with a remote AE, it’s been absolutely fine apart from me fighting Titler+ difficulties the entire time.  Throughout rough cutting I’ve been doing all my own postings, no problems.   But two weeks ago we scaled up as we shifted into fine cut mode and turnover to finishing.   We brought on a finishing AE and additional editor.    We lock picture tomorrow.   AE is on 2022.7, as am I, but the additional editor is on a system that is V2021.5, on a dongle.   We all are remote, as the whole show has been.   It's a good film.

We had planned all week for the AE to output the final ‘last look’ postings this weekend, including finals for submissions etc., while the two picture editors work.   I’ve been sending AE my cuts for the last few weeks for posting without problem.   But now, every time the 2021.5 editor sends a cut to the AE 2022.7 system for output, most of the Titler+ titles are INSANE - often completely offscreen or half offscreen, bizarrely vertically stretched, or the kerning is massively different so the text is crushed into itself, or the line leading is zero and all lines are on top of each other, or it’s in the wrong font, or it’s simply disappeared.  The outputs are absolutely unusable via that workflow.   Unfortunately, the 2021.5 > 2022.7 system exchange is the workflow that NEEDS to work for us - while we have very few fine cut picture notes to address before lock, that’s the last system we have to go through for multiple entirely valid reasons., e.g. TITLING.

We are tonight a day late on our last look posting, in an absolute panic, trying to figure out how to cope with this mess, and are unable to edit the film while we try to figure out a plan to deal with these bugs.   Avid tech support’s response is “2021.5 has many Titler+ bugs - update that system to 2022.7”   OK, so we try that, but the dongle won’t allow an update beyond 2021.12, and while maybe 10% of the titles problems suddenly are fixed by updating to that version, the vast majority of them remain as insane as ever.

We are now having to suddenly remotely rent and install a new edit system that runs 2022.7 just to cope with this titling nightmare.   And all we’re dealng with is lower thirds and a card or two, nothing fancy in any way.   Plus, the tech delays this has caused a small documentary post team have cost us huge amounts of editing time and money, and fine cut notes are no longer able to be addressed as a result.   Because of this, we are likely to miss our picture lock deadline, with consequent finishing cost and delivery schedule impacts on the picture.

In short, as an editor working alone my experience has been that any version of Avid Media Composer since 2019.x is UNACCEPTABLE.

But this experience tells me that in a multi-editor environment, any version of Avid Media Composer past 2019.x is UNUSABLE.   Basically, unless you’re all on the same latest system, it doesn't work.

It’s over.   Fix this useless disaster, I’m done.   Moving to another platform for the next film.

TITLER+ has been off the cards for over 3 years now.

Serious post had to find alternative titling solutions.

Who was tech supervising the job? This is a known Avid limitation and has been for years.

Sadly this type of editing workflow no longer seems to be Avids target audience.

Avid looks to be targeting individuals and not collaborative working.

Many Avid editors will use sub caps or the timecode effect as temp slates and then use a 3rd party solution for final edits like After Effects.

Pat Horridge:

Who was tech supervising the job?

Small independent doc features that can afford IT supervisors and support are a little thin on the ground these days, sadly.  And previous post crew had made the decision to start the project in Avid a year before my arrival, and by the time I got to it, a year's worth of dailies were already ingested, transcribed, ScriptSynced and assemblys had been worked on - there was simply no way to restart in another platform.  But since this film would only require Lower Thirds, I thought we'd cope.  Now I know better.

Hi Philip,

While I agree with your opinion:

Philip Owens:

any version of Avid Media Composer since 2019.x is UNACCEPTABLE.

almost completely, your demand

Philip Owens:

the 2021.5 > 2022.7 system exchange is the workflow that NEEDS to work for us

is simply asking for the impossible.

The issues with Media composer 2020.x/2021.x have caused many customers, especially the collaborative, including those using Nexis and Mediacentral, very big headaches. And while over time a growing part of the customer base became aware of Avids new policies and the problems they caused in their products, it took Avid far too long to admit publicly that things had gone very wrong, that development + QC prior release needed an overhaul and that older 2020/2021 versions now need to be avoided. But this past can't be undone and as a result the only setup that has a chance of working now is one consisting only of 2021.12.3 or 2022.7 versions at this moment of writing.

For you the main problem might be how these problems in old versions affect production deadlines, but in my humble opinion the real tragedy is in Avid not applying a mea culpa courtesy program allowing all perpetual 2020.x and 2021.x license owners to upgrade at a significant discount or even for free to 2022.7. If your 2nd AE would be able to update to 2022.7 at little to no cost in an hour or so, your big problems would be solved and you might still be able to meet your deadlines.

Yes the days of Avid just being a reliable robust workhorse are behind us. So you xant just assume Avid versions will work and play nicely together are a thing of the past.

So you need somebody across the workflow ensuring the gotchas are avoided or stick on 2018 version as so many have. 

I felt avid should at least have a way for perpetual users to update titler plus giving the problems with it over the years. I didn't renew my license as I didn't see any major improvements that made it worth it. But I do think Avid should allow an update on the titler plus. I am no engineer so I don't know the inner workings on something like that but giving it works as an effect I don't think it would be too difficult 

Philip,

I truly appologize for the issues. Could you reach me via email immediately?  A lot of these things are fixable, and I can assist.  I'm at [email protected]. 

The other editor with the 2021.5 version - could you get me that person's Avid System ID for their license? I can fix it so that it can be upgraded. 

Thank you for your reply and offer to help, Chris, it means a lot.   We did end up locking last night, and having access to a 2022.7 system made all the difference.   But you know it was not without a lot of uneccessary stress and chaos.

Philip Owens:

Thank you for your reply and offer to help, Chris, it means a lot.   We did end up locking last night, and having access to a 2022.7 system made all the difference.   But you know it was not without a lot of uneccessary stress and chaos.

Definitely... Way, WAY too much stress and chaos. You don't deserve that, and neither does anyone else. 

I'm in all of the meetings internally, discussing all of the fixes and features for Titler+... and so I do know that all of this is getting better soon.  The hard part is indeed all of the mismatched older versions out there. It's been a painful process for our customers to endure. 

In the meantime, I'm here to assist whenever you need it. Minus a few hours on the weekends when I'm running around doing Dad stuff ;) 

Ping me whenever you need to. And that goes for everyone.

Also... Congrats on locking.  Huge achievement, regardless of issues. 

FWIW, ive been workin in a big multi enviroment and 2022.7 is much better. Not great by any means but things show up as they were intended from editor to editor. 

our main gripe is the slowdown timeline and having to render every title and for some reason the render will break eventually no matter what so all of the sudden youll be editing in quick sand again. 

to have to render a title in this day an age of people cutting 8k red native on consumer machines is rediculous. 

Pat Horridge:

Yes the days of Avid just being a reliable robust workhorse are behind us. So you xant just assume Avid versions will work and play nicely together are a thing of the past.

So you need somebody across the workflow ensuring the gotchas are avoided or stick on 2018 version as so many have. 

Re-reading this thread as we are midway through finishing and finally free of the Titler+ nightmare.  Pat, you're right - can't trust Avid to 'just work' any more.   But the suggestion that production hire an IT specialist is unworkable in this day and age of reduced budgets, I'm afraid, certianly in the indie doc world.   And the suggestion to stay on 2018 is literally unworkable when most people have far more modern computers which simply cannot run 2018 - my 2019 laptop cannot run any OS pre-Catalina, so 2018 simply isn't an option.   That was the case for all the other computers on this film too.

I'm on to my next project, and enjoying Premiere.   For those who don't know, the built-in transcription in Premiere is incredible and  means that ScriptSync is no longer what was previously a very powerful reason to stick with Avid.

I wasn't suggesting an IT specalist. A Post supervisor or technical supervisor is the key person who has the overview of the workflows and processes. 

They have knowledge of the software being used and the key workflow steps. They keep abreast of the developments and the potential gotchas. 

Their  "cost" across a job is normally more than covered in the time and cost they save avoiding issues. 

It's not unlike trying to build a house by just employing plumbers, but carpenters, electritians and brickies. 

Without an onsite foreman or project manager you soon have each trade treading on the toes of the other. 

I've been helping support post workflows for over 20 years and the ones with issues, and over runs and over budget never have a technical supervisor. 

It often doesn't even need to be a full time role depending on the project. Their input can be very specific and on demand.