Latest post Sat, May 8 2021 4:27 AM by luca.mg. 18 replies.
Page 1 of 2 (19 items) 1 2 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Fri, May 7 2021 12:20 PM

    Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    Hi all,

     

    Out of interest... what's the difference between 3D effects like PIP and 'normal' effects like the Picture in Picture effect? 

    What does (Xpress 3D Effect) mean?

     

    Thanks in advance

    Ryzen/GTX H/W (I know) [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 7 2021 12:35 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    Hi.

    Picture and Picture or PP lets you promote to a versatil effect. Using 3 D warp efect you have many options to move; scale; rotation; etc

    And just for the record:

    There is a difference between PP and Resize wich is the Alpha channel. PP lets you see whats below the layer.

    hope tbis helps.

    AVID MEDIA COMPOSER 5.5.3. PC. WINDOWS 7, SP1. 64BIT OPERATING SYSTEM. QUICK TIME VERSION 7.6.9. [view my complete system specs]

    Christian Jhonson

    Avid Ambassador                                 

    christianjhonsoon@hotmail.com

     

  • Fri, May 7 2021 12:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    Christian Jhonson:

    Hi.

    Picture and Picture or PP lets you promote to a versatil effect. Using 3 D warp efect you have many options to move; scale; rotation; etc

    And just for the record:

    There is a difference between PP and Resize wich is the Alpha channel. PP lets you see whats below the layer.

    hope tbis helps.

    Thanks for your response Christian.

     

    So I know the difference between a PP, resize and a 3D warp, I was just wondering what the difference was between a Picture in Picture and a 3D PIP effect? 

    Ryzen/GTX H/W (I know) [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 7 2021 1:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    Philip Kapadia:
    I was just wondering what the difference was between a Picture in Picture and a 3D PIP effect? 

    First, a caveat: I don't remember the exact years of any of this.

    Around 1996 Avid had only a basic set of effects; resize, flip, flop, that kind of thing. All of them only worked in X and Y. There was no option to adjust any of them with regard to Z.

    Around 1999 Avid gave you the option to buy a box you could plug in to your Media Composer system that would allow you to manipulate effect in Z. It was called the Xpress 3D box (or something like that; everyone called it 'the pizza box' because that's what it looked like. A $13,000 pizza, if I remember right). When you got the box you got the effects in the Xpresss 3d category, so you could make your video wrap around a ball shape, or make a transition peel off like a page turning, or even move your picture in picture effect toward you or away from you in Z space. It was a heady time.

    I think - but I do not know - those effects are only there now so that if you brought forward a sequence from 1999 and it had some of those effects, your 2021 Media Composer would understand them and you'd be able to work with them. In practical terms, there is no difference between a basic PiP, an Xpress 3d PiP, a basic PiP promoted to 3d, or a 3d Warp, aside from the different effect parameters available in each of them.

    Media Composer 2021.5 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Fri, May 7 2021 1:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    What Carl says, they are legacy effect names. But I think the Xpress 3D effects are 3D presets from Avid Xpress (a feature limited version of Media Composer). Bottom line is that, at the time, they required either an external 3D option (pizza box, which I think was actually the box used by Pinnacle's Aladdin digital video switcher) or (later?) an internal 3D card. The base effect is actually the '3D Warp' effect. If you add that, nothing in the image changes, but you get various scaling, rotation and trailing options in the effects editor.

    The original '2D' effects in MC (like Resize) have a 3D button to the bottom right of the Effects Editor. If you click it, the effect is promoted to a 3D Warp and you get all the extra parameters of that effect. Beware that if you promote a Resize, the BG will be black, rather than revealing lower layers. Whereas if you promote a Picture in Picture, the BG will reveal lower layers.

    Complicated, confusing, but has to do with backwards compatibility.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 7 2021 2:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    camoscato:

    Philip Kapadia:
    I was just wondering what the difference was between a Picture in Picture and a 3D PIP effect? 

    First, a caveat: I don't remember the exact years of any of this.

    Around 1996 Avid had only a basic set of effects; resize, flip, flop, that kind of thing. All of them only worked in X and Y. There was no option to adjust any of them with regard to Z.

    Around 1999 Avid gave you the option to buy a box you could plug in to your Media Composer system that would allow you to manipulate effect in Z. It was called the Xpress 3D box (or something like that; everyone called it 'the pizza box' because that's what it looked like. A $13,000 pizza, if I remember right). When you got the box you got the effects in the Xpresss 3d category, so you could make your video wrap around a ball shape, or make a transition peel off like a page turning, or even move your picture in picture effect toward you or away from you in Z space. It was a heady time.

    I think - but I do not know - those effects are only there now so that if you brought forward a sequence from 1999 and it had some of those effects, your 2021 Media Composer would understand them and you'd be able to work with them. In practical terms, there is no difference between a basic PiP, an Xpress 3d PiP, a basic PiP promoted to 3d, or a 3d Warp, aside from the different effect parameters available in each of them.

    Amazing, Thank you Carl and Job ter Burg,

     

    Very very very interesting - love learning about this. 

    Ryzen/GTX H/W (I know) [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 7 2021 2:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    Just noticed you have a Avid Xpress Pro tag under your handle, I now know Meridien, Xpress, Avid DV, Avid DS, FastServe, etc etc etc... time to get researching on MetaFuze and liquid lol!

     

    I'll give avid one thing, they come up with good names.... ISIS, Nitris...

    Ryzen/GTX H/W (I know) [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 7 2021 3:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    Philip Kapadia:
    Just noticed you have a Avid Xpress Pro tag under your handle...

    Yeah, I mod all the dead products. FreeDV was the free thing they had prior to Media Composer First, Xpress Pro was a limited version of Media Composer you could get for less money, and Meridien was the hardware prior to Adrenaline. :)

    Liquid is also dead, but I never used or moderated that one, and I still don't know what MetaFuze is or was.

    Media Composer 2021.5 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Fri, May 7 2021 3:30 PM In reply to

    • jcmcnamee
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Brooklyn, NY
    • Posts 297
    • Points 3,160

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    Was it MC 7.0 that added the 3D stuff along with audio keyframes? I remember being excited about that release back in my early edit days.

    Media Composer 2021.3 / OS 11.3 27" iMac 5K 2017 [4.2 GHz Intel Core i7, 64 GB ram, Radeon Pro 580 8 GB] [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 7 2021 3:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    camoscato:

    Philip Kapadia:
    Just noticed you have a Avid Xpress Pro tag under your handle...

    Yeah, I mod all the dead products. FreeDV was the free thing they had prior to Media Composer First, Xpress Pro was a limited version of Media Composer you could get for less money, and Meridien was the hardware prior to Adrenaline. :)

    Liquid is also dead, but I never used or moderated that one, and I still don't know what MetaFuze is or was.

    I don't know why but I have this overwhelming desire to learn all of this in as much depth as possible lol.

    You don't need to be amazing at avid in order to be an editor :)

    Tbh I wish Avid didn't discontinue/stop producing the Artist colour, if it worked better with MC | Symphony I would save up for a second hand one. I do lots of grading & correction in symphony (look at my sig :p ) 

     

    Ryzen/GTX H/W (I know) [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 7 2021 4:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    jcmcnamee:

    Was it MC 7.0 that added the 3D stuff along with audio keyframes? I remember being excited about that release back in my early edit days.

    I learned on 5.5 (I think) in 1996, so 7.0 sounds about right. :)

     

    Media Composer 2021.5 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Fri, May 7 2021 5:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    MetaFuze was a standalone transcoding application, broken out of the Avid DS (formerly Softimage DS). I used it a lot to create MXF dailies from Red files back in the day. This was before Resolve took off. MetaFuze could use the Red Rocket accelerator card, which speeded up Red decodes significantly -- for a mere 5000 bucks. I still have mine, in a storage room somewhere. 

    Want to go way back? Avid has morphing software, wasn't that called Avid Illusion or Avid Elastic or something like that? 

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 7 2021 5:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    Job ter Burg:
    Avid has morphing software, wasn't that called Avid Illusion

    That sounds right, because there's an 'Illusion FX' category in the Effect Palette.

    Media Composer 2021.5 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Fri, May 7 2021 6:00 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Roma - Italy
    • Posts 5,863
    • Points 69,495

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

     

    Job ter Burg:
    What Carl says, they are legacy effect names. But I think the Xpress 3D effects are 3D presets from Avid Xpress (a feature limited version of Media Composer). Bottom line is that, at the time, they required either an external 3D option (pizza box, which I think was actually the box used by Pinnacle's Aladdin digital video switcher) or (later?) an internal 3D card.

    This goes back to 1994-95 more or less, but Job is right, Avid Xpress was a low cost editing system with a reduced set of 3d effects, these effects were brought to Media Composer for interoperability. Can't remember if the real name of the pizza box was Aladin, surely it was the ABVB age, the internal 3d card came along with the Meridien hardware.

    Symphony 21.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Fri, May 7 2021 6:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Difference between Picture-in-picture and 3D PIP?

    Job ter Burg:

    MetaFuze was a standalone transcoding application, broken out of the Avid DS (formerly Softimage DS). I used it a lot to create MXF dailies from Red files back in the day. This was before Resolve took off. MetaFuze could use the Red Rocket accelerator card, which speeded up Red decodes significantly -- for a mere 5000 bucks. I still have mine, in a storage room somewhere. 

    Want to go way back? Avid has morphing software, wasn't that called Avid Illusion or Avid Elastic or something like that? 

    What about sorenson squeeze? Wasn't that a transcoding application? Why have squeeze and MetaFuze?

    Ryzen/GTX H/W (I know) [view my complete system specs]
Page 1 of 2 (19 items) 1 2 Next >

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller