Latest post Fri, Apr 16 2021 4:17 PM by Pat Horridge. 21 replies.
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  • Wed, Apr 14 2021 6:33 PM

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 196
    • Points 2,755

    Calling all ALE experts!

    I have a bunch of Betacam SP tapes that I shot back in 98 and edited on the old Liquid Silver system - now I need to re-capture these in Avid, preferably with the same clip in out points.

    I managed to export the required bins from Liquid as separate ALE files.

    The original ALE files each have this header -

    Heading
    FIELD_DELIM    TABS
    VIDEO_FORMAT    PAL
    AUDIO_FORMAT    48khz
    FPS    25.00

    Which I have replaced (using notepad) with -

    Heading
    FIELD_DELIM    TABS
    VIDEO_FORMAT    1080
    AUDIO_FORMAT    48khz
    FPS    25

    Which is the header on all my HDCAM bins in the Avid project in which I am working (the clips will be captured in HD from a HD-CAM VTR.

    I have tried to import these ALE EDLs several times but Avid doesn't accept them for some reason.

    Therefore my questions to those who might have a better handle on this ALE thing...

    What are the minimum column data and headings that must be in the ALE file to be imported?

    I currently have -

    Color Name    Tracks  Tape    Start    End Duration

    Does Avid care about the column order in the Ale file, providing that the order in the column list corresponds to the order of the data lines for each clip?

    To test I have made a simple 4-clip ALE file -

    Heading
    FIELD_DELIM    TABS
    VIDEO_FORMAT    1080
    AUDIO_FORMAT    48khz
    FPS    25

    Column
    Color Name    Tracks  Tape    Start    End Duration

    Data
    400578-078_Clip001    VA1    078 03:00:25:24    03:00:48:09 00:00:22:10
    400578-078_Clip002    VA1    078 03:00:49:23    03:01:00:24 00:00:11:01
    400578-078_Clip003    VA1    078 03:01:01:07    03:01:12:14 00:00:11:07
    400578-078_Clip004    VA1    078 03:01:12:16    03:01:25:17 00:00:13:01

    (these fields are all tab delimited)

    Just to see if the system will eat it. It doesn't - I get the console alarm that reads -

    Cannot import line:
    400578-078_Clip001 VA1 078 03:00:25:24 03:00:48:09 00:00:22:10
    Cannot import line:
    400578-078_Clip002 VA1 078 03:00:49:23 03:01:00:24 00:00:11:01
    Cannot import line:
    400578-078_Clip003 VA1 078 03:01:01:07 03:01:12:14 00:00:11:07
    Cannot import line:
    400578-078_Clip004 VA1 078 03:01:12:16 03:01:25:17 00:00:13:01

    On importing in Avid I choose -

    Select frame Rate 25fps
    Select Project Type 1080/50
    Select audio mapping 2 tracks

    It's been a few years since I last did this, and it did work before, but I can't see what I may be doing wrong here.

    As a simple experiment I exported as ALE a bin of HDCAM shots that was logged and captured in MC for the current project and tried to import that as an ALE - the system crashed - several times.

    Are there any words of wisdom out there, or do I really have to log and capture 50+ betacam tapes again from start?

    Thanks - in hope :)

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-4650 8-core HT 2.6GHz CPU with 32GB RAM, NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

    Filed under:
  • Wed, Apr 14 2021 8:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch AJA i/o Express with Express Card Slot Ignite... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 14 2021 8:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Why change the headings.

    Strip it back to tape and I'm out point.

    That's all you need in an HD project a tapre re capture will be in HD.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Wed, Apr 14 2021 9:19 PM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 196
    • Points 2,755

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    I no longer have v.7 so I doubt if I can do this.

     

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-4650 8-core HT 2.6GHz CPU with 32GB RAM, NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Wed, Apr 14 2021 9:23 PM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 196
    • Points 2,755

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    I would love to see a document that precisely describes the ALE layout - the exact TAB abd CR positions, and the rules for using them.

    If I edit the ALE files either directly or in Excel (even checking them with a ASCII reader that shows the invisible codes) Avid refuses to import.

    If I try and import the unedited ALE fiels from my previous system (exported today) Avid tells me the format is not recognised.

    I'm sure there's something I must be missing - but why all the black magic when it's nothing but a simple tab separated text file. I do this same routing in a semicolon separated version every month for my bank account to my accounting software with no trouble :)

    And I don't udnerstand why MC7 cannot import an ALE list which the same system has exported a few minutes ago - this crashes the system.

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-4650 8-core HT 2.6GHz CPU with 32GB RAM, NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Thu, Apr 15 2021 12:22 AM In reply to

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch AJA i/o Express with Express Card Slot Ignite... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 15 2021 7:34 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Roma - Italy
    • Posts 5,847
    • Points 69,310

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Use Crimson editor, or a programmer's editor, to edit ALE files, if You're mad for spreadsheet use LibreOffice Calc instead of Excel, it seems to give better results. Please make sure You save as TAB delimited. Required fields are clip name, tape, tracks, in, out. Going to the Avid download centre and downloading a legacy MC version might give You the standalone Avid Log Exchange installer, if it still runs on current OS...

    Symphony 21.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Thu, Apr 15 2021 10:23 PM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 196
    • Points 2,755

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Thanks for the tip on Crimson editor - a nice tool - that also allows the editing/deletion of unwanted columns thuis avoiding the need to route the task through excel :)

    I just ran a test on a "Crimson edited" ALE file - but Avid will not tak it - I get the prompt "The file is not valid and can't be opened"

    The file looks like this -

    Heading
    FIELD_DELIM    TABS
    VIDEO_FORMAT    1080
    AUDIO_FORMAT    48 KHz
    FPS    25.00

    Column
    Name    Tracks    Start    End    Tape   

    Data
    Clip001    VA1    03:00:25:24    03:00:48:09    078   
    Clip002    VA1    03:00:49:23    03:01:00:24    078   
    Clip003    VA1    03:01:01:07    03:01:12:14    078   
    Clip004    VA1    03:01:12:16    03:01:25:17    078   
    Clip005    VA1    03:01:25:20    03:01:39:19    078   
    Clip006    VA1    03:01:42:11    03:02:00:08    078   
    Clip007    VA1    03:02:00:13    03:02:16:12    078   
    Clip008    VA1    03:02:17:10    03:02:29:19    078   
    Clip009    VA1    03:02:30:01    03:02:42:01    078   
    Clip010    VA1    03:02:43:08    03:02:47:19    078   
    Clip011    VA1    03:02:47:21    03:02:51:19    078   
    Clip012    VA1    03:03:06:20    03:03:23:19    078   
    Clip013    VA1    03:03:24:03    03:03:40:20    078   
    Clip014    VA1    03:03:41:00    03:04:07:03    078   
    Clip015    VA1    03:04:07:11    03:04:09:20    078   
    Clip016    VA1    03:04:24:03    03:04:39:23    078   
    Clip017    VA1    03:04:40:02    03:05:26:11    078   
    Clip018    VA1    03:05:27:09    03:05:53:11    078   
    Clip019    VA1    03:05:54:00    03:06:08:11    078   
    Clip020    VA1    03:06:08:21    03:06:16:05    078   
    Clip021    VA1    03:06:16:12    03:06:26:18    078   
    Clip022    VA1    03:06:26:24    03:07:16:03    078   
    Clip023    VA1    03:07:22:03    03:07:28:00    078   
    Clip024    VA1    03:07:43:09    03:07:50:22    078   
    Clip025    VA1    03:07:51:14    03:08:15:23    078   
    Clip026    VA1    03:08:16:03    03:08:31:16    078   
    Clip027    VA1    03:08:31:22    03:08:48:22    078   
    Clip028    VA1    03:08:49:09    03:09:19:19    078   
    Clip029    VA1    03:09:20:06    03:09:31:17    078   
    Clip030    VA1    03:09:32:03    03:09:47:20    078   
    Clip031    VA1    03:09:48:01    03:10:03:23    078   
    Clip032    VA1    03:10:04:15    03:10:15:11    078   
    Clip033    VA1    03:10:15:18    03:10:25:03    078   
    Clip034    VA1    03:10:26:11    03:10:37:08    078   
    Clip035    VA1    03:10:37:21    03:10:44:00    078   
    Clip036    VA1    03:10:45:08    03:10:49:17    078   
    Clip037    VA1    03:10:49:24    03:11:04:03    078   
    Clip038    VA1    03:11:04:11    03:11:11:03    078   
    Clip039    VA1    03:11:11:18    03:11:15:24    078   
    Clip040    VA1    03:11:16:04    03:11:24:19    078   
    Clip041    VA1    03:11:25:00    03:11:50:00    078   
    Clip042    VA1    03:11:50:13    03:12:17:23    078   
    Clip043    VA1    03:12:18:04    03:12:37:05    078   
    Clip044    VA1    03:12:37:09    03:12:55:00    078   
    Clip045    VA1    03:12:57:02    03:13:07:19    078   
    Clip046    VA1    03:13:08:10    03:13:24:08    078   
    Clip047    VA1    03:13:24:11    03:13:31:06    078   
    Clip048    VA1    03:13:31:12    03:13:42:16    078   
    Clip049    VA1    03:13:42:22    03:14:00:18    078   
    Clip050    VA1    03:14:01:01    03:14:22:02    078   
    Clip051    VA1    03:14:39:11    03:14:45:18    078   
    Clip052    V    03:14:45:20    03:15:01:00    078   
    Clip053    VA1    03:15:01:03    03:15:11:13    078   
    Clip054    VA1    03:15:26:01    03:15:43:08    078   
    Clip055    VA1    03:15:45:24    03:15:55:15    078   
    Clip056    VA1    03:15:57:01    03:16:22:18    078   
    Clip057    VA1    03:16:24:07    03:17:37:19    078   
    Clip058    VA1A2    03:16:27:00    03:16:36:21    078   
    Clip059    VA1A2    03:17:13:00    03:17:26:13    078   
    Clip060    VA1    03:18:18:15    03:18:34:13    078   
    Clip060    VA1    03:17:37:21    03:18:18:12    078   
    Clip061    VA1    03:18:34:22    03:18:45:02    078   
    Clip062    VA1    03:18:50:10    03:19:06:12    078   
    Clip063    VA1    03:19:06:16    03:19:15:02    078   
    Clip064    VA1    03:19:17:02    03:19:31:21    078   
    Clip065    VA1    03:19:35:02    03:19:44:10    078   
    Clip066    VA1    03:19:44:14    03:19:54:05    078   
    Clip067    VA1    03:19:54:16    03:20:10:00    078   
    Clip068    VA1    03:20:18:22    03:20:31:01    078   
    Clip069    VA1    03:20:33:21    03:20:49:12    078   
    Clip070    VA1    03:20:49:14    03:20:54:09    078   
    Clip071    VA1    03:20:56:10    03:21:03:03    078   
    Clip072    VA1    03:21:05:20    03:21:12:11    078   
    Clip073    VA1    03:21:12:19    03:21:33:19    078   
    Clip074    VA1    03:21:33:23    03:21:49:03    078   
    Clip075    VA1    03:21:49:06    03:22:10:23    078   
    Clip076    VA1    03:22:15:08    03:22:21:22    078   
    Clip077    VA1    03:22:23:05    03:22:56:03    078   
    Clip078    VA1    03:22:57:19    03:23:02:11    078   
    Clip079    VA1    03:23:02:17    03:23:12:23    078   
    Clip080    VA1    03:23:13:05    03:23:24:22    078   
    Clip081    VA1    03:23:25:08    03:23:45:24    078   
    Clip082    VA1    03:23:46:18    03:23:53:16    078   
    Clip083    VA1    03:24:12:01    03:24:39:01    078   
    Clip084    VA1    03:24:40:04    03:24:47:00    078   
    Clip085    VA1    03:24:47:05    03:24:59:20    078   
    Clip086    VA1    03:25:16:03    03:25:20:12    078   
    Clip087    VA1    03:25:20:19    03:25:53:07    078   
    Clip088    VA1    03:25:53:14    03:26:15:06    078   
    Clip089    VA1    03:26:15:08    03:26:36:13    078   
    Clip090    VA1    03:26:43:15    03:26:56:00    078   
    Clip091    VA1    03:26:56:05    03:27:24:11    078   
    Clip092    VA1    03:27:24:18    03:28:08:10    078   
    Clip093    VA1    03:28:12:17    03:28:20:10    078   
    Clip094    VA1    03:28:21:02    03:28:36:02    078   
    Clip095    VA1    03:28:37:14    03:28:50:05    078   
    Clip096    VA1    03:28:51:19    03:29:13:07    078   
    Clip097    VA1    03:29:18:05    03:29:37:11    078   
    Clip098    VA1    03:29:56:21    03:30:14:04    078   
    Clip099    VA1    03:30:14:06    03:30:36:06    078   
    Clip100    VA1    03:30:36:19    03:30:53:05    078   
    Clip101    VA1    03:30:53:10    03:31:07:05    078   
    Clip102    VA1    03:31:07:11    03:31:19:21    078   
    Clip103    VA1    03:31:20:00    03:31:41:17    078   
    Clip104    VA1    03:31:41:19    03:31:52:09    078   
    Clip105    VA1    03:31:53:21    03:32:32:24    078   
    Clip106    VA1    03:32:33:07    03:32:50:23    078   
    Clip107    VA1    03:32:54:22    03:33:57:03    078   
    Clip108    VA1    03:33:57:15    03:34:57:20    078   
    Clip109    VA1    03:35:03:20    03:35:27:14    078   

    There's also a jpg screen dump from Crimson attached where one can see the tAB and CR codes.

    I simply cannot see what is wrong here - can anyone else spot the problem?

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-4650 8-core HT 2.6GHz CPU with 32GB RAM, NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Thu, Apr 15 2021 10:58 PM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 196
    • Points 2,755

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    I'm always reluctant to shout BUG! when having difficulty with software asI know from experience the the problem is most often due to my own error. But I am wondering whether my version of MC (8.5.3) has an ALE-bug - not only will it not handle any .ale file I create or import - regardless of the order of the fields (I have reduced to only name, tape, tracks, Start, End) but it will not handle an ale.file from an existing bin that has been logged and captured on the same platform and was exported less than a minute before, with the file being edited or even viewed externally. So I ask, if 8.5.3. cannot handle it's own children, is there any hope that it will handle imported offspring?

    According to the Avid ale. document listed above, my ale. files seem 100% correct.

    I'm running out of ideas - but unfortuneatly not out of old betacam tapes to recapture :)

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-4650 8-core HT 2.6GHz CPU with 32GB RAM, NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Fri, Apr 16 2021 3:45 AM In reply to

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Did you follow the “No Carriage return after last event” advice from Creative Cow ?

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch AJA i/o Express with Express Card Slot Ignite... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 16 2021 5:24 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Roma - Italy
    • Posts 5,847
    • Points 69,310

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Can You share a not working ALE file to test on a different MC release?

    Symphony 21.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Fri, Apr 16 2021 7:14 AM In reply to

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Adrian Redmond:

    The file looks like this -

    Heading
    FIELD_DELIM    TABS
    VIDEO_FORMAT    1080
    AUDIO_FORMAT    48 KHz
    FPS    25.00

    Column
    Name    Tracks    Start    End    Tape   

    Data
    Clip001    VA1    03:00:25:24    03:00:48:09    078   
    Clip002    VA1    03:00:49:23    03:01:00:24    078   
    Clip003    VA1    03:01:01:07    03:01:12:14    078   

    =-=-=-=-=-=-

    I simply cannot see what is wrong here - can anyone else spot the problem?

    I did just copy this to AkelPad, replaced 4 spaces to tab, replace fps 25.00 to fps 25, save to ale and import to Avid successfully.  Maybe problem is in codepage of your edited ALE. It seems to be Win 866. See attachment.... And check at Avid settings -> import -> Shot Log -> Maintain events as logged is setted. 

    See my attachment 2.txt renamed from 2.ale

    12 PCs HP Z6, 3 laptops Dell, HP Zbook G6, AVID MC 2018.12.x licensed, MC 2020.x trial [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 16 2021 7:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    I always export an ALE from the target system and use that as the base to transplant my data. That way I know the structure is correct.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Fri, Apr 16 2021 10:13 AM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 196
    • Points 2,755

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Thanks Alexander,

    You say you replaced 4 spaces to TAB - which?

    I have tried with both 25 and 25.00 fps neither seem to help.

    I'll check the Avid settings. I have assumed that all my systems and utilities are working on the same (Windows) codepage.

     

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-4650 8-core HT 2.6GHz CPU with 32GB RAM, NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Fri, Apr 16 2021 10:16 AM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 196
    • Points 2,755

    Re: Calling all ALE experts!

    Pat Horridge wrote:

    I always export an ALE from the target system and use that as the base to transplant my data. That way I know the structure is correct.

    I treid this too - as a test, but it didn't work. But the whole point of ALE is to move a BIN list from one system to another. If I had logged and captured this material originally in Avid, I wouldn't need to go the ALE route - I would simply import the bin. I had to use ALE because this material was logged back in 2000 on my old Liquid Silver NLE system.

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-4650 8-core HT 2.6GHz CPU with 32GB RAM, NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

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