Dealing with 5.1+ formats, turning round sports line cuts, I'd really like to have a container for the + (which might be anything between 3-16). Currently I need 5*timeline tracks for front/centre/lfe/rear/extras. Doubled for overlaps. With a better container I could get that down to 3 - front/centre/everything else (centre is announce, so I have to be able to edit that, front gets augmented/replaced if I change video from line cut)
Similarly editing with a stereo guide mix + multiple iso tracks on reality/shiny floor shows I'd like to modify my 16ch clips to be 1*stereo and 1*14ch - so I can bring the Isos along during the edit with minimal timeline track requirements.
Dont get me wrong, the Avid modify multichannel functionality is still quicker to use + more flexible than PP, but adding a few more containers would be very useful. Ideally with presets to be able to set the multichannels on multiple clips with a keyboard shortcut.
Is what you are asking not more like a way to 'stack' or 'collapse' a bunch of tracks, rather than a format container? A 5.1 channel is patched to a 5.1 bus, whereas the tracks you describe are more like additional stems or option tracks. Or perhaps I'm missing your point?
I wholeheartedly support the request to be able to modify tracks to miltichannel for subclips, synced clips and group clips.
j
Yes I agee its not a larger format (as it can't be format specific) its just a way to manage multiple channels as one entity.
Lost of broadcasters typically edit with something like 16 channels that contain the stereo, 5.1 in fullmix and M&E and have to handle them all as a "unit"
So a way to stack audio as one entity would be helpful.
There would be issues to resolve. How do ytou chose what audio you monitor in this single track?
What waveforms do you display?
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Shouldn't be hard to conceive. You should be able 'step in' and pick which track(s) you would want to monitor. Whatever you monitor would generate the waveform in the collapsed stack.
I'm not very experienced with it, but I do think Pro Tools has a similar way to handle this, but it might be limited to clips with common formats. And obviously, it would be quite helpful to have features like this to work between MC and PT.
For the sports turnaround scenario I use direct out currently - so route the fronts to 1+2, centres to 3, lfe to 4, rears to 5+6 then the 8 immersive tracks to 9-16 (we keep 7+8 mute).
So in the 3 timeline track scenario I'd route 1-3 the same then 4-16 container to 4-16 outputs.
We use multiple mixdown if we need to deliver files (but mostly just play back baseband to EVS to then air - means we can QC at the same time). I have previously requested a 'direct out - as monitored' export option.
(The dummy track is to enable A7+8 be mute in the multiple mixdown.)
Monitoring source material gets a bit messy like this though. Not sure there's an elegant way around that. Although just typing that out has made me think of one thing to try...
Understand that this is a very niche request!
Job ter Burg: Is what you are asking not more like a way to 'stack' or 'collapse' a bunch of tracks, rather than a format container? A 5.1 channel is patched to a 5.1 bus, whereas the tracks you describe are more like additional stems or option tracks. Or perhaps I'm missing your point? I wholeheartedly support the request to be able to modify tracks to miltichannel for subclips, synced clips and group clips. j
Mainly I want to be able to have a container, like 7.1, but that starts at A4.
(We use the 7.1 pro tools container so it doesn't screw around swapping tracks around - but it's not 7.1 content, it's 8* iso mics that need to be delivered out if the tracks they came in on)
I don't need to pan 5.1 - that's done by the live audio mixer - but I need to augment/edit the fronts + centre.
4-16 just follow along or are from a loop. Much easier if I don't have to wrangle them as seperate tracks.
If Avid decide to add it then it needs to be a feature that is suitable for a range of needs.
Currently Avids containers are format specific so thats not an appropriate vehicle unless there could be som new agreed "formats" that has their track allocations defined.
So I suspect we are looking for something that behaves like a format container but isn't one.
Stepping inside to control monitoring is an idea but we don't have that functionality on the audio side currently.
Also I suspect there will numerous other complications with how a container behaves. Waveforms being just one example.
How would it display 10 or 16 waveforms in one track?
But I echoed this is the correct place so Avid will see the idea as I think its a usefula feature.
PP and Resolve have 'adaptive' tracks - which could work (although Resolve seems to be limited to surround formats for bussing but I haven't looked much further into that, and PP has a bug with output routing that they are now aware of so hopefully will fix). But the 'format' of an assignment could be to pass it through to dedicated output tracks, or none.
In terms of showing 16 tracks as a waveform you'll just need to have the clip be double the height we need to have a 7.1 track to see the waveforms therein. It might be nice to have the option to choose specific tracks in the container to display, or have it do an 'overview' but mostly I want to be able to see the constituent tracks so will have to suck up the real estate that will take up.
Pat Horridge: If Avid decide to add it then it needs to be a feature that is suitable for a range of needs. Currently Avids containers are format specific so thats not an appropriate vehicle unless there could be som new agreed "formats" that has their track allocations defined. So I suspect we are looking for something that behaves like a format container but isn't one.
PP and Resolve have 'adaptive tracks' that go towards this
Pat Horridge: How would it display 10 or 16 waveforms in one track? But I echoed this is the correct place so Avid will see the idea as I think its a usefula feature.
See attached - Resolve shows an overview in the edit page and individual waveforms in the Fairlight (audio edit) page. That's one idea. I'd rather it showed the overview in the edit page UNTIL you expanded the track height when it should then show the individual waveforms.
Expanded version
Adaptive track (actually this is 1x stereo for fronts 2x mono (centre, spill to replace it when losing commentary) and 1x 11ch adaptive LFE, Rears, Extra iso mics for immersive)
I gather Protools has this so Avid has the code.
But this may fall at Avid needing to retain differentiation between MC and Protools.
Pat Horridge: I gather Protools has this so Avid has the code. But this may fall at Avid needing to retain differentiation between MC and Protools.
I don't think PT has this at all.
And I don't think Avid needs to retain differentiation between MC and PT that way, as the two are miles apart as they are (if only because PT's clients in music outnumber its clients in post). In fact, this would enhance the integration between the two applications -- one of the more popular requests in the annual survey.
"Avid wants you to use PT for that" is a myth. And one that discards the current state postproduction is in at that.
Ok - investigated further + PP is way better + more flexible for this.
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