Latest post Sun, Feb 21 2021 9:08 AM by David Benini. 41 replies.
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  • Fri, Dec 18 2020 9:56 PM

    ProRes Raw Issues

    I'm confused, everytime I try and link my S1H ProRes Raw footage it looks overexposed and incorrect. I've tried using the available lut from manufacture to convert the ProRes Raw to Log but Avid does not display the correct exposure. My color settings are ycbr709. I've tried multiple source settings but nothing seems to work. 

    Any help would be MUCH appreciated because I would like to start using ProRes Raw workflow.

     

     

    Media Composer 20.10, Ryzen 7 3900x, Nvidia RTX 2080TI, 64g Ram, Windows 10 Pro, Baselight for Avid , Decklink Mini 4K Monitor [view my complete system specs]

    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." -Tyler Durden (1954-1999)

  • Sat, Dec 19 2020 6:25 AM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    Hello Alexander Corcoran,

     

    It would help to know your system specifications. Which specific version of Media Composer are you using? Which specific operating system? Processor? Amount of RAM? Video card? Is your media linked, transcoded, or imported? Where is your media stored? Look at my profile at the bottom of this post for an example.

     

    If you fill out this information in your profile, you won't have to type it out every time you need help.

    Media Composer 2024.2 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Sat, Dec 19 2020 6:35 AM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    Sorry about that, I'm new here.

     

    specs

    Windows 10 Pro

    Avid Media Conposer 20.10

    64 Gigs Ram DDR4 3600mhz

    RTX 2080 TI 12gb Gpu

    Ryzen 7 12 Core Processor 

    Footage Stored on M.2 Drives

    Footage Linked (ProRes Raw..)

    Prores SDK for Windows Installed

    Using Recomended Nvidia Driver

     

    Media Composer 20.10, Ryzen 7 3900x, Nvidia RTX 2080TI, 64g Ram, Windows 10 Pro, Baselight for Avid , Decklink Mini 4K Monitor [view my complete system specs]

    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." -Tyler Durden (1954-1999)

  • Sat, Dec 19 2020 10:08 AM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    Alexander Corcoran:

    Sorry about that, I'm new here.

    No worries, welcome to the forum!

    The best explanation I've ever read of color handling in Media Composer is this one by Job ter Burg, who is also a moderator on the forum. If I were in your shoes I'd start by trying to apply what he's written to your workflow and see if you can make any progress. If you run into issues, please reply back to this thread.

    http://www.jobterburg.nl/Publications/601_709_RGB.pdf

    Media Composer 2024.2 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Sat, Dec 19 2020 11:25 AM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    Not played with ProRes RAW yet but if it follows other RAW footage then the actual footage is manipulated by metadata from the camera.

    Unlike "normal" recorded media that is processed in the camera before recording (so at best you are adjusting that processed media) when you ingest the footage the camera settings metadata is applied so you "see" the result as set by the camera operator. But you can then alter those settings (unlike in a normal recording where they are baked in) effectively allowing you to alter the way the media is processed. 

    You don't want to convert RAW to LOG (LOG is another way of retaining a wide dynamic exposure range)

    Depending on what you need to output and what colour space you need to work in you may need to add a colour adapter (or set it in the RAW settings) to convert the ProRes RAW to that colour space. Possible Rec.709

    The one thing you can't change with RAW footage is the actual exposure as that is a physical iris adjustment. If the camera wasn't exposed enough then thats what you end up with. You can crank the gain up in the grade but you will increase the noise.

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET (Retired Early 2022)

     

    Still offering training and support for: QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more.

    Mainly delivered remotely via zoom but onsite possible.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E [email protected]

     

  • Sat, Dec 19 2020 2:32 PM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    No, its just a lut to convert from raw to log.

    https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/lut/s1h_raw_lut/index.html

     

    The footage is exposed correctly. Its not that. After linking the Prores Raw fooatge and clicking "source settings" to verify correct inputs it will still look overexposed with crunchy blacks. Also, to verify this i was checking waveform and the levels are shifted in a very odd manner.

     

    It really sucks because i spent alot of money to be able to capture Prores Raw from my S1H and i cant even use it.

    Media Composer 20.10, Ryzen 7 3900x, Nvidia RTX 2080TI, 64g Ram, Windows 10 Pro, Baselight for Avid , Decklink Mini 4K Monitor [view my complete system specs]

    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." -Tyler Durden (1954-1999)

  • Sat, Dec 19 2020 7:36 PM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    I can't understand why you want a log result?

    We shot log but convert out of log to see the "normal" footage.

    Log would look washed out and under exposed. Surely you want rec. 709?

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET (Retired Early 2022)

     

    Still offering training and support for: QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more.

    Mainly delivered remotely via zoom but onsite possible.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E [email protected]

     

  • Sat, Dec 19 2020 8:01 PM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    Panasonic has provided the lut conversion tool for proper color. You have to do a conversation for anytype of raw data. My colorspace IS rec709 but working as a Colorist you start with Log....

    Anyhow, I had to uninstall Avid and switch over to Scratch/Premier workflow. It handles ProRes Raw perfectly.

     

    Goodbye Avid and thanks for the wonderful support. I've tried emailing, calling and reaching out here but your focus is elsewhere "subscription count".

     

    Horrible horrible horrible customer service!

     

    Media Composer 20.10, Ryzen 7 3900x, Nvidia RTX 2080TI, 64g Ram, Windows 10 Pro, Baselight for Avid , Decklink Mini 4K Monitor [view my complete system specs]

    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." -Tyler Durden (1954-1999)

  • Sat, Dec 19 2020 10:46 PM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    You use Log if you don't have RAW. you capture in Log to use the log characteristic to expand the luminance range. No need for that in RAW its there already.

    If you shoot Log you then use a log LUT to undo log back to rec.709 (you aren't adding log you are actually reversing the log applied in camera)

    But there is no need in RAW (unless ProRes RAW is actually applying Log, and then you would apply a log LUT to undo that log back to rec.709)

    But looks like you have a solution so thats good.

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET (Retired Early 2022)

     

    Still offering training and support for: QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more.

    Mainly delivered remotely via zoom but onsite possible.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E [email protected]

     

  • Sun, Dec 20 2020 11:59 PM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    But you're using the RAW>LOG LUT? So that's going to look wrong if you're viewing it in 709?

    Surely you need to do what that panasonic website recomends further down the page; Select a custom LUT and locate the "VLog_to_V709_forV35_ver100.cube" LUT which is linked to on the site?

     

    HP ZBook G6 15 2.6Ghz 6-core i7 9th Gen Nvidia Quadro T2000 4GB 64GB RAM Win 10 Pro MC Ultimate 2022.10 MacbookPro 15 2019 6 core 2.6GHz i9 32GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 21 2020 12:12 AM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    Yes, I tried every method possible. The ProRes Raw footage linked with UME will not look correct in Avid Media Composer. I've tried using different variants of ProRes Raw from different cameras and they all look the same. 

    When you link the ProRes Raw footage you are supposed to use a raw-to-log conversion from camera manufacturer so the raw footage will be in correct color space for grading log footage.  I'm using Baselight, so log is the way to go...Also, I can't even use Baselight in Avid grading ProRes Raw because it crashes immediately after trying to open the plugin. So many complications and waste of time and money๐Ÿ˜‚ 

     

    I have switched over to Assimilate Scratch / Premier workflow now so it doesn't matter but just a warning to anyone trying to implement this workflow. Don't waste your money or time because it will not work.

    Media Composer 20.10, Ryzen 7 3900x, Nvidia RTX 2080TI, 64g Ram, Windows 10 Pro, Baselight for Avid , Decklink Mini 4K Monitor [view my complete system specs]

    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." -Tyler Durden (1954-1999)

  • Mon, Dec 21 2020 12:26 AM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    I won't comment on whether or not Prores RAW can be made to be displayed properly within MC as I don't have any to test on but I would say that Avid really needs to do a much better job explaining how these sorts of workflows should be implemented.

    I have asked repeatedly for whitepapers and explanations on some of the more advanced capabilities of MC (32bit float, ACES etc) and nothing ever comes back. Like I said in my other post, some stuff you can just sort of figure out as you go, but a lot of this very complex colour science needs clear and practical explanation. I wish they would take more care over documenting their product properly in a clear and accesible manner. Some random document hidden in the depths of the knowledgebase doesn't cut it, it should be in the manual so that when people tell you to RTFM you might actually find the answers!

    Andi

    HP ZBook G6 15 2.6Ghz 6-core i7 9th Gen Nvidia Quadro T2000 4GB 64GB RAM Win 10 Pro MC Ultimate 2022.10 MacbookPro 15 2019 6 core 2.6GHz i9 32GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 21 2020 12:30 AM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    Exactly! I spent 900.00 plus subscription costs and this is the support we get!? Complete and utter disregard for their customers. 

    Media Composer 20.10, Ryzen 7 3900x, Nvidia RTX 2080TI, 64g Ram, Windows 10 Pro, Baselight for Avid , Decklink Mini 4K Monitor [view my complete system specs]

    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." -Tyler Durden (1954-1999)

  • Mon, Dec 21 2020 1:03 AM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    I won't go that far as I have had nothing but excellent support from them over the years. You seem to have had a bad experience but I promise they are streets ahead of adobe in terms of customer support. They do care and they are good eggs. It might be worth giving them time to get on board with this and look in to it. Especially if you have spent good money it seems silly to throw it all away so quickly.

    My point is merely, that from the perspective of someone who wishes to find out about functionality before requiring a support call, they are woefully lacking and I don't believe that's the support people's fault, that's a management issue. Their product is still viewed as being overly complicated and less accessible than their competitors despite the fact that I don't really think that's true. Having a well written and UP TO DATE manual would help with that a lot. Avid, can you please properly update your high-res workflows documents to include things like this and HDR project set up and monitoring etc. There should be more info on this by now.

    Andi

    HP ZBook G6 15 2.6Ghz 6-core i7 9th Gen Nvidia Quadro T2000 4GB 64GB RAM Win 10 Pro MC Ultimate 2022.10 MacbookPro 15 2019 6 core 2.6GHz i9 32GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 21 2020 1:14 AM In reply to

    Re: ProRes Raw Issues

    Me coming from Resolve and having excellent support and ease of use and also the comical ease I had using ProRes Raw in less than 10min using Assimilate and Premier. So simple..

    A month ago I took a deep dive into Avid and Baselight and it has been nothing but headaches, crashes and lack of customer support. This is my first experience with Avid and last ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

    It's also funny that Avid is purposely not providing proper guides or training because they want you to spend a couple grand on the 101/110 training. If you look online there is no free training or guides to get you started with anything relating to workflows or even the simplest things such as properly linked footage, Aces workflow, ProRes Raw (The reason I purchased Avid!) or anything pertaining to a modern approach. I mean come on, Davinci even has a complete guide on all their products with excellent free training. This is a train wreck ๐Ÿ˜…๐Ÿ˜…

     

    Media Composer 20.10, Ryzen 7 3900x, Nvidia RTX 2080TI, 64g Ram, Windows 10 Pro, Baselight for Avid , Decklink Mini 4K Monitor [view my complete system specs]

    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." -Tyler Durden (1954-1999)

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