Latest post Thu, Dec 10 2020 4:27 AM by Fazz Powell. 33 replies.
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  • Thu, Dec 3 2020 3:03 PM

    • Darson
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    • Joined on Fri, Nov 6 2020
    • Posts 22
    • Points 360

    Graphic Card Advantages

    Hi everybody.

    Can anyone explain me what kind of advantages can give me having a powerful graphic card instead of a cheap one during the whole workflow of editing in Media Composer?

    Will be the system quicker importing media? or rendering? or will be playing smoothly a timeline with a lot of effects? Exporting?

    Who's charge in the various operations? The CPU or the GPU?

    Any reference document I can read about it? Personal experiences?

    I'm using MC from its first versions in the 1990s and still I can't understand. Please help me.

  • Thu, Dec 3 2020 4:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Mostly its just more realtime playback that you gain from a good graphics card.

    However increasingly soem rendering work can get passed to the GPU so you may get a gain there.

    I've worked on systems with the lowest spec'd card and the highest spec'd card and not noticed enough of a gain to justify the additional cost. So I tend to go for a mid range card.

    But I do stick to Nvidia Quadro cards on Avids supported list as I have had subtle issues with un supported cards.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Thu, Dec 3 2020 4:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Darson:
    Any reference document I can read about it? Personal experiences?

    Avid, this request is so old that sometime soon people will start searching for an answer in an archeological museum.

     

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own systems: 1x Z420 E5 1650 32GB memory quadro K2200, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 24GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

    A.V.I.D....... Another Version In Development

    www.mediaoffline.com

     

     

     

  • Thu, Dec 3 2020 4:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    I suspect WE are the archeological museum!

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Thu, Dec 3 2020 4:49 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Bayonne NJ
    • Posts 4,403
    • Points 54,710

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Reviewing Avid's hardware approved equipment lists are a good baseline. You have to consider the entire computers capabilities in this quest. I/O speed, CPU with memory, available storage and access speed are related factors. Installing an expensive graphics card on a 6 year old pc will have questionable value.

    Indeed, a mid priced Quadro card is a good place to be.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, Quadro K620/GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 21.5. Win 20H2  Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 18/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Thu, Dec 3 2020 5:04 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Ontario, Canada
    • Posts 4,798
    • Points 62,840

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    I really think you need to consider, also, whether you are using any plugins such as BCC, Mocha or Sapphire from BorisFX - they benefit significantly from GPU processing... Also (don't hate me) if you intend to also use DaVinci Resolve then you will need an extremely powerful GPU just to get some basic work done, in my experience, depending on what aspects of Resolve you intend to use (anything that utilizes machin learning will require more horsepower).

    For Resolve, the system in my signature barely gets by for any of their advanced features (the P4000 is rather underpowered), whereas it's pretty good for Media Composer (which is my main editing platform these days).

    MC 2020.12 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2021 | Sapphire 2021 | Mocha Pro 2021 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (20H2) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X (4.1GHz... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

    ______________________

    www.nelliedogstudios.com

  • Thu, Dec 3 2020 5:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Pat Horridge:
    I suspect WE are the archeological museum!

    Big Smile

     

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own systems: 1x Z420 E5 1650 32GB memory quadro K2200, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 24GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

    A.V.I.D....... Another Version In Development

    www.mediaoffline.com

     

     

     

  • Thu, Dec 3 2020 8:32 PM In reply to

    • Darson
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 6 2020
    • Posts 22
    • Points 360

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Thanks Pat and thanks to all for your kind answers.

    I came to the same conclusions, no real differences in a normal workflow of editing, I was asking myself why everybody keeps saying that the minimum suggested card is a Quadro RTX4000, when you just connect to its output two monitor for the substantial static GUI of the software. I couldn' find any answer.

    In my personal experience I couldn't see any difference in performances in any step of the process of editing. But, please, contradict me.

    I'm in the archeological museum too, as I started editing in the end of 80's, and no, I'm not going to use BM Resolve any time soon.

    I'll keep searching for a while, but if I don't find any evidence I'll go for a P620 (178euros) and not a RTX4000 (995euros) and I will spend what I save for a better CPU or RAM or Storage.

    Thanks for your time.

  • Thu, Dec 3 2020 8:36 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Bayonne NJ
    • Posts 4,403
    • Points 54,710

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Hi I am running the older K620, its ok with MC, Vegas Pro finds it lacking...You need 4 GIG video memory for MC 2010.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, Quadro K620/GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 21.5. Win 20H2  Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 18/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Sun, Dec 6 2020 7:38 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 584
    • Points 7,460

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Avid uses, particularly, with 2020, Distributed processing, that shares work across the CPU, Ram and GPU. So not only graphics are handled by the GPU. In the absense of a powerful graphics card Avid will still work happily in most cases, say for HD, as long as the CPU and ram meet the minimum specs. I can still edit HD comfortably in 2018 on an old 2015 i7 quadcore consumer laptop, with only a 2GB Geforce card. As others have said if you use some plugins, or other programmes you may need a powerful graphics card. I use Davinci Resolve a lot for colour grading, from Avid AAFs and so I upgraded my graphics card to a Quadro P5200 16GB vram, (I got a brand new HP one at a very good price) specifically to handle 4K in Resolve. It was not necessary for Avid and 4K.

    Nvidia Quadro cards are more precise, than Geforce cards, which are essentially gaming cards with raw power, in their quality calculations and carry ECC vram for error correction. For certain colour critcal rendering in some apps this can be important. It seems not to be the case with Resolve but I believe this is why Avid certify them, and they are part of ISV certification in many other professional apps and will perform better than Geforce cards in those apps designed around them.

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.12, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P5200/16GB/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Dec 6 2020 12:12 PM In reply to

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Mercer:
    Avid uses, particularly, with 2020, Distributed processing, that shares work across the CPU, Ram and GPU.

    Hi Mercer,

    That Media composer uses the resources of graphics cards, typically OpenGL but maybe other methods as well in 2020, is known by most of the users. Just open the task manager or nVidia GPU utilization graph in the nvdia driver and it becomes visible. The long term request towards Avid has been the release of a white paper indicating which resources are used by what and in which way the Graphic cards performance abilities can be utilized.

    Simly said, a user should be able to determine what the difference is between using an old low power but certified NVIDIA Quadro 2000 1GB card or a NVIDIA P620 2GB card and a NVIDIA RTX6000 24GB card. Between these 'extremes' there is some information available. For example:

    https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/en365919?popup=true

    But if you want to learn the difference you can expect between the modern NVIDIA P1000 4GB card, a NVIDIA P2200 5GB card or again the NVIDIA RTX6000 24GB card, you simple are not able to determine what your return on investment will be.

    I am talking about render or transcode time charts on for example cerified HP Z8 or DELL 3640 workstations with each individual card for HD, 2K, 4K and 8K using DNxHD, XDCAM HD, DNxHR, Proress and not to forget H264 and H265. I know that such a document would take a lot of time to create considering the number of variables, workstations, graphic cards, processor, memory, storage and for that reason I do not expect Avid to create a complete matrix.  

    If the effects manufacturers, like Boris and Red giant, would also cooperate this would greatly increase the value of that document and if nVidia would sponsor its creation... it's their high end cards we might want to buy isn't it?

    What I'm afraid of (speculation warning) is that several attempts to create such a document have already been made by one or more parties involved but when the numbers and charts were completed the product managers and marketing teams stepped back, looked at them and said: 'It's better we do not publish this'.

     

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own systems: 1x Z420 E5 1650 32GB memory quadro K2200, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 24GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

    A.V.I.D....... Another Version In Development

    www.mediaoffline.com

     

     

     

  • Sun, Dec 6 2020 12:55 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 584
    • Points 7,460

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Hi Jeroen,

    There is a 'white paper', that addresses at least Avid's pipeline processing, and I think it is understood properly with fewer users than you suggest:

    http://www.avidblogs.com/how-avid-media-composer-uses-a-computer/

    Render time is not always the most import consideration but colour critical precision in rendering maybe. The simple metric for me, is can the present hardware function comfortably with my critical professional workflow. And I determined that the Quadro P3200 could not with Resolve but was fine for Avid. Since I by necessity I am committed to a mobile setup, working with both Avid and Resolve, with plans to upgrade in 2 years or whenever my hardware falls off the certified lists, and yet need to, from time to time, online mostly in Broadcast HD, sometimes but more increasingly 4K, my only choice was the MXM Quadro P5200 card.

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.12, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P5200/16GB/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 7 2020 2:21 PM In reply to

    • LDV20
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 18 2011
    • Posts 345
    • Points 4,120

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Using a P2000 Quadro with resolve for color correcting no problem.  With MC no problem other than when working on a 4K linked sequence with effects/fast cut edits - I do get the red indicator at times but not always - so   not sure if a higher end quadro would solve the AMA issue.  However once the sequence is transcoded - smooth playback

    L

    Symphony 2021.3 - Win 10 pro (1909),Gigabyte X299X with i9 10920X CPU, Quadro P2000,driver 461.72; 64gig memory, 1TB NV system drive, WD 4TB, BM Min Monitor... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 7 2020 4:26 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 584
    • Points 7,460

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Hi L, colour grading was no problem in Resolve either, with the 6GB P3200, what is more taxing is noise reduction and restoration tools. Working at 4K with anything less than 8GB vram can be taxing too, without proxy and cache. So you will probalby find a card with more vram will help your issue, either Quadro or Geforce - it doesn't seem to matter with Resolve. The newer RTX card perform much better too.

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.12, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P5200/16GB/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 7 2020 4:52 PM In reply to

    • LDV20
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 18 2011
    • Posts 345
    • Points 4,120

    Re: Graphic Card Advantages

    Mercer:
    So you will probalby find a card with more vram will help your issue, either Quadro or Geforce - it doesn't seem to matter with Resolve. The newer RTX card perform much better too.

     

    Thank you - I  just looked at better cards - I will think on it - Geforce is better bang for the buck but I lean towards Quadro staying with Avid's preference on the Quadro -in the event I need support might be better to have a quadro.  I do not really know.

    Larry

    Symphony 2021.3 - Win 10 pro (1909),Gigabyte X299X with i9 10920X CPU, Quadro P2000,driver 461.72; 64gig memory, 1TB NV system drive, WD 4TB, BM Min Monitor... [view my complete system specs]
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