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  • Fri, Sep 4 2020 10:44 AM

    • YOP
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    What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    Hi

    I'm having slow playback issue when tring to play in Color Corection mode.

    I have 128GB of Ram.

    What is the best Cache setting in Media Composer for best real time playback?

    Thanks

    Yair

    Avid Media Composer 2021.3 + Symphony Option, HP Z840- System Disk- ZTurbo 500GB, CPU- 2X E5-2699V3 18 Cores (Total 72 Threads cores), RAM- 128GB ECC,... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Sep 4 2020 12:13 PM In reply to

    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    Its not easy to answer that as so many factors come into play.

    If you have a massive cache MC will be busy loading that cache up and during that time you may experience reduced performance. When the cache is full you gain a longer window of playback before the cache need refreshing.

    However as colour correction mode will by its nature be applying realtime corrections you are having to process the cache contents to reflect the CC changes so this impacts performance.

    This all sits ontop of the OS cache that is already transfering drive media to RAM

    So I'd test performance over a reasonable editing timeframe (a few hours at least) with a range of Media Cache sizes.

    Start small, say a few GB then jump up in steps of a few GB at a time.

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Fri, Sep 4 2020 3:51 PM In reply to

    • YOP
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    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    Hi Pat,

    In the Media Cache window there are 2 tabs that I think are relevant to my case.

    The Video Memory, inside there is the Video Memory slider(I set it to 40GB)

    and the 2 checkbox for Playback and FX Frame Cache, are both on.

    The other tab is the File Cache which I set to 60GB.

    What would you recomand for me as for those 2 tabs?

    Thanks for your replay!

    Yair

    Avid Media Composer 2021.3 + Symphony Option, HP Z840- System Disk- ZTurbo 500GB, CPU- 2X E5-2699V3 18 Cores (Total 72 Threads cores), RAM- 128GB ECC,... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Sep 5 2020 2:33 AM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    It makes no sense that one gets smoother playback with blackmagic io than full screen playback.

    w10, always the latest version of MC, diy 7940x, gtx 1080 ti. [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Sep 5 2020 1:17 PM In reply to

    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    cls105:

    It makes no sense that one gets smoother playback with blackmagic io than full screen playback.

    Yes it does. With external IO MC passes the data to the IO and hardware takes care of shipping out to the display. In FS playback the cpuu and gpahics card are working hard displaying the image. 

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Sat, Sep 5 2020 5:44 PM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    Ok.  Point is, today's gpus can handle full screen playback but do it poorly in media composer.

    video games are rendering 3d at high resolutions at 60 FPS.

    media composer should at least improve it.

    w10, always the latest version of MC, diy 7940x, gtx 1080 ti. [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jan 1 2021 8:37 PM In reply to

    • hartfilms
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    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    I have the same question. Did you find an answer, Yair?

    MC 2018.12.8 - HP Z440: Intel Xeon E5-1650v3 3.50GHz 15MB 2133 6C CPU; G8U34AV 32GB DDR4-2133 (4x8GB) RegRAM; NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4GB DL-DVI(I)+2xDP 1st... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jan 1 2021 8:45 PM In reply to

    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    That's true but one of theong standing strengths of Media Composer is it will run on a range of hardware without the need for GPU support. 

    This low editors to use MC on lower spec machines. 

    If GPU performance was demanded a whole bunch of editors would have to upgrade systems. 

    I'm no programmer so I have no idea if it's possible to build a playback engine that can adapt to GPU or CPU dynamically but I have worked with other NLEs that claimed they could with frustrating results. 

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

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  • Sat, Jan 2 2021 10:27 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    YOP:

    Hi Pat,

    In the Media Cache window there are 2 tabs that I think are relevant to my case.

    The Video Memory, inside there is the Video Memory slider(I set it to 40GB)

    and the 2 checkbox for Playback and FX Frame Cache, are both on.

    The other tab is the File Cache which I set to 60GB.

    What would you recomand for me as for those 2 tabs?

    Thanks for your replay!

    Yair

    I would think that is far too much even with 128GB ram. Try backing off those sliders to say 10GB or less.

    Media Composer does balance load between gpu and cpu for real time fx and scaling, but how much and whether that works for FS software playback is unknown. In any case the FS is really only useful for an offline use. Hardware io decompresses the timeline to SDI/HDMI, without any pc display contamination. It also makes sense that hardware io would be smoother when you consider that MC has to 'translate' 30p, 50i, 24p etc. to 60Hz computer displays on the fly.

     

    MC with Symphony option, 2021.6, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P5200/16GB/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 2 2021 4:10 PM In reply to

    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    Happy new year Pat.

    Pat Horridge:
    one of theong standing strengths of Media Composer is it will run on a range of hardware without the need for GPU support.

    Not sure if the Resolve development team and user base would agree on that.

    Pat Horridge:
    If GPU performance was demanded a whole bunch of editors would have to upgrade systems.

    Is Avid really holding back on GPU performance so the ones that use older hardware (from ebay) or the budget pc build users can stay on board? I must be misinterpreting you.

    Pat Horridge:
    I'm no programmer so I have no idea if it's possible to build a playback engine that can adapt to GPU or CPU dynamically but I have worked with other NLEs that claimed they could with frustrating results. 

    I'm with you that very few would benefit from destabilizing MC in exchange for trying to achieve more performance. But with that attitude we could have stayed 32 bit and kept quicktime for decades to come. Maybe even revert the move to tapeless... and those bad camera and monitor manufacturers that pushed for HD, 2K, 4K 8K, Super Angry

    All irony aside, if putting in manual media cache adjustment options in MC results in answering OP's question with:

    Pat Horridge:

    Its not easy to answer that as so many factors come into play.

    So I'd test performance over a reasonable editing timeframe (a few hours at least) with a range of Media Cache sizes.

    Start small, say a few GB then jump up in steps of a few GB at a time.

     

    Isn't it obvious that crucial information is missing when you have to reside to: 'You test all combinations out yourself'?

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own systems: 1x Z420 E5 1650 32GB memory quadro K2200, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 24GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

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  • Sat, Jan 2 2021 4:25 PM In reply to

    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    I can only see it as I find it. I don't work for Avid or am on the development team.

    I know about the systems my clients use and many many of them are on very old systems.

    None run Resolve as offline suites. all run hundreds of Avid offline suites on low spec systems.

    Granted Resolve leaves Avid standing in terms of playback performance across a range of codecs but Resolve can't do lots of what my clients need so its a mute point.

    As for my suggestion re testing. Its just that a suggestion. Its what I'd do. In fact its what I do even if Avid did have clearer advice on it.

     

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Sat, Jan 2 2021 4:48 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
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    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    Pat Horridge:
    Granted Resolve leaves Avid standing in terms of playback performance across a range of codecs but Resolve can't do lots of what my clients need so its a mute point.

    As a heavy user of Resolve too I can almost say categorically this isn't the case. MC will play most all things realtime, with reasonable specs, whereas Resolve has still an unecassarily complex proxy/cache setup and too much reliance on gpu to make offline editing practical competition in an Avid world.

     

    MC with Symphony option, 2021.6, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P5200/16GB/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 2 2021 8:07 PM In reply to

    • hartfilms
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    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    Hi Pat and everyone else on this thread!

    Here's the best advice I found from Avid: 

    https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/How_To/Correct-interactive-frame-cache-or-Media-Cache-settings-in-Media-Composer#

    Pretty much what you said with more details. As someone said, even for 128GB RAM, the settings described by the original poster seem high.

    Joyce

    MC 2018.12.8 - HP Z440: Intel Xeon E5-1650v3 3.50GHz 15MB 2133 6C CPU; G8U34AV 32GB DDR4-2133 (4x8GB) RegRAM; NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4GB DL-DVI(I)+2xDP 1st... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jan 3 2021 11:54 AM In reply to

    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    Indeed my take away is take car in allocating too much RAM. Even if you have loads to spare.

    The relationship between the OS, drive and Media Composer buffers can just result in lots of moving data from one cache to another.

    Experimenting is the only way to factor in all the conditions affecting your systems and its setup. No two systems will be the same.

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Sun, Jan 3 2021 1:42 PM In reply to

    Re: What is the best Media Cache settings for best real time playback

    Hi Hartfilms,

    This article is a part of another also by Chris Bove in cooperation with Avid: http://www.avidblogs.com/how-avid-media-composer-uses-a-computer/

    Part of information is presented when used on Mac and that should not make much of a difference regarding the media cache settings. On Mac it does however leave the GPU out of the equation. As most of us know that mac os & nVidia are not 'best of friends', especially considering recent developments in 2020, this makes sense. (What the further impact will be on the graphics and video editing industry of the Apple M1 chip and GPU compatibility... time will tell)

    On the PC side of things there is however a (supported) GPU with more and more memory for which Avid stated the following in this article:

    - 1. GPU is front loaded/preferred by composer when playing a timeline.

    - 2. SOME colour adapters are processing intensive and thus run better with a more powerful GPU

    - 3. SOME effects are processed by the CPU, more recent have been engineered using GPU.

    And this makes the video cache setting so complicated because you now have 2 caches of which you can control only 1. How do you determine a bottleneck between a CPU or GPU and how does the video cache help if the GPU doesn't have enough memory or a powerful GPU helps if not enough memory is available? 

    Is OP's collor correction mode performance a CPU + cache or GPU issue? Two caches make things complicated but the use of the word SOME and not having indicators in your timeline or during other process if something is utilizing GPU and being bottlenecked... sigh.

    I remain in my position that still having to reverse engineer this is tragic regardless if the underlying motivations are backwards compatibility, Mac OS <-> Windows (development) compatibility or being able to run on 'low' performance hardware.

    We are going forward again faced with Apple and Microsoft running on different processor platforms where only 1 out 3 (M1, AMD, Intel) is currently supported. Will this split make the above even more complicated? Who knows? All I have been able to conclude is that supporting MacOS can forever be used as an excuse for lack of GPU integration. But not as an excuse that it is 'ok' for the users to figure it out themselves.

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own systems: 1x Z420 E5 1650 32GB memory quadro K2200, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 24GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

    A.V.I.D....... Another Version In Development

    www.mediaoffline.com

     

     

     

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