Latest post Thu, Apr 15 2021 7:53 AM by Pulck. 38 replies.
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  • Tue, Apr 6 2021 9:05 AM In reply to

    • Pulck
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    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    Walter Johan:

    I try every 5 years or so and my latest test from a few weeks ago showed that indeed, going straight from Avid to Premiere didn't go well at all. Timing of every single videoclip on the timeline was completely off. Audio seemed okay. Putting Resolve in between them gave better results.

    Thanks. I don't suppose you could outline the process for me? E.g. what AAF settings you use out of Avid and again out of Resolve. I've never touched Resolve so any info or pointers you can provide would be hugely appreciated. 

  • Tue, Apr 6 2021 10:18 AM In reply to

    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    Pulck:
    Thanks. I don't suppose you could outline the process for me? E.g. what AAF settings you use out of Avid and again out of Resolve. I've never touched Resolve so any info or pointers you can provide would be hugely appreciated. 

    I'm not sure if my specific workflow is of any use but I'll try to explain it briefly. I use Avid managed media (via the Avid MediaFiles folder) and not linked media.

    When I start a project I import all camera source footage into Resolve and enable the setting "Assist using reel names from the Mediapool folder name" in File > Project Settings > General Options. I put clips in bins that I give names to be used as reel names. This way clips can always be identified (and therefore relinked) through a combination of filename, timecode and reel name (in Avid this is the Tape column).

    I add the clips to a timeline and then export this timeline to create DNxHR LB proxies (Deliver page: Render: Individual clips) that I put in the Avid MediaFiles folder.

    I import these clips in the Avid project with the Media Tool. Once the edit is done I export an AAF with the Link to (Don't Export) Media setting. In Resolve I import this on the Edit page with File > Import > Timeline, and use the option "Link to source camera files". Usually this is where I stop as I finish in Resolve. In my Premiere test I exported the timeline again with File > Export > Timeline. I think I used FCP 7 XML, not 100% sure.

    In this workflow it's important that Resolve relinks the clips from the proxies back to the camera originals. As far as I know there is no way to do this in Premiere if your proxies weren't also created in Premiere. I'm not sure if you could create proxies in Premiere, import these in Avid, cut, go back to Premiere (via Resolve) and swap the proxies for the originals in Premiere. If you're willing to cut on linked media in Avid then I guess it could work (in theory), or you might create MXF-proxies in Premiere straight into the Avid MediaFiles folder and work on that... Maybe other people know more about this.

    MC: 2021.6 with Symphony and Phrasefind CPU: AMD Threadripper 1950X GPU: GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11G RAM: 64GB Kingston HyperX Predator HX430C15PB3K4/64... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Apr 6 2021 1:29 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    Walter Johan:

    Pulck:
    Thanks. I don't suppose you could outline the process for me? E.g. what AAF settings you use out of Avid and again out of Resolve. I've never touched Resolve so any info or pointers you can provide would be hugely appreciated. 

    I'm not sure if my specific workflow is of any use but I'll try to explain it briefly. I use Avid managed media (via the Avid MediaFiles folder) and not linked media.

    When I start a project I import all camera source footage into Resolve and enable the setting "Assist using reel names from the Mediapool folder name" in File > Project Settings > General Options. I put clips in bins that I give names to be used as reel names. This way clips can always be identified (and therefore relinked) through a combination of filename, timecode and reel name (in Avid this is the Tape column).

    I add the clips to a timeline and then export this timeline to create DNxHR LB proxies (Deliver page: Render: Individual clips) that I put in the Avid MediaFiles folder.

    I import these clips in the Avid project with the Media Tool. Once the edit is done I export an AAF with the Link to (Don't Export) Media setting. In Resolve I import this on the Edit page with File > Import > Timeline, and use the option "Link to source camera files". Usually this is where I stop as I finish in Resolve. In my Premiere test I exported the timeline again with File > Export > Timeline. I think I used FCP 7 XML, not 100% sure.

    In this workflow it's important that Resolve relinks the clips from the proxies back to the camera originals. As far as I know there is no way to do this in Premiere if your proxies weren't also created in Premiere. I'm not sure if you could create proxies in Premiere, import these in Avid, cut, go back to Premiere (via Resolve) and swap the proxies for the originals in Premiere. If you're willing to cut on linked media in Avid then I guess it could work (in theory), or you might create MXF-proxies in Premiere straight into the Avid MediaFiles folder and work on that... Maybe other people know more about this.

    Same workflow here, except for the import step: I drop the MXF files created with Resolve into their own numbered subfolder(s) within the (drive letter):\Avid MediaFiles\MXF directory, run MC and let it build the media databases that I drag and drop to a bin, where the clips show up. You can try to skip the proxy creation in Resolve, but still You'll have to use it to generate an XML file for Premiere, since the straight import of an Avid AAF file into Premiere won't work out nice. Making the proxy files with Resolve increases the chances of success though.

    Symphony 21.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Tue, Apr 6 2021 4:37 PM In reply to

    • Pulck
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    • Joined on Fri, May 26 2006
    • London, UK
    • Posts 152
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    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    luca.mg:

    Walter Johan:

    Pulck:
    Thanks. I don't suppose you could outline the process for me? E.g. what AAF settings you use out of Avid and again out of Resolve. I've never touched Resolve so any info or pointers you can provide would be hugely appreciated. 

    I'm not sure if my specific workflow is of any use but I'll try to explain it briefly. I use Avid managed media (via the Avid MediaFiles folder) and not linked media.

    When I start a project I import all camera source footage into Resolve and enable the setting "Assist using reel names from the Mediapool folder name" in File > Project Settings > General Options. I put clips in bins that I give names to be used as reel names. This way clips can always be identified (and therefore relinked) through a combination of filename, timecode and reel name (in Avid this is the Tape column).

    I add the clips to a timeline and then export this timeline to create DNxHR LB proxies (Deliver page: Render: Individual clips) that I put in the Avid MediaFiles folder.

    I import these clips in the Avid project with the Media Tool. Once the edit is done I export an AAF with the Link to (Don't Export) Media setting. In Resolve I import this on the Edit page with File > Import > Timeline, and use the option "Link to source camera files". Usually this is where I stop as I finish in Resolve. In my Premiere test I exported the timeline again with File > Export > Timeline. I think I used FCP 7 XML, not 100% sure.

    In this workflow it's important that Resolve relinks the clips from the proxies back to the camera originals. As far as I know there is no way to do this in Premiere if your proxies weren't also created in Premiere. I'm not sure if you could create proxies in Premiere, import these in Avid, cut, go back to Premiere (via Resolve) and swap the proxies for the originals in Premiere. If you're willing to cut on linked media in Avid then I guess it could work (in theory), or you might create MXF-proxies in Premiere straight into the Avid MediaFiles folder and work on that... Maybe other people know more about this.

    Same workflow here, except for the import step: I drop the MXF files created with Resolve into their own numbered subfolder(s) within the (drive letter):\Avid MediaFiles\MXF directory, run MC and let it build the media databases that I drag and drop to a bin, where the clips show up. You can try to skip the proxy creation in Resolve, but still You'll have to use it to generate an XML file for Premiere, since the straight import of an Avid AAF file into Premiere won't work out nice. Making the proxy files with Resolve increases the chances of success though.

    Many thanks for setting out how you both go about this. But, honestly, I hadn't thought it would be quite so complicated! Maybe it just sounds complicated to me because I don't know Resolve at all.

    Anyway, I'll keep experimenting and if I can't come up with any simpler solutions, I'll give this a go.

  • Tue, Apr 6 2021 5:31 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    Well I know real life is tough, but in an ideal world I'd say that it's up to the post house to conform and online from whatever NLE the editor uses, and it shouldn't be an offline editor's problem how to ingest the footage according to the post workflow. Moreover, if I was the post house I'd want to make sure that the product can be mastered, so I would create the proxies myself and give them to  the editor in order to prevent troubles down the road. Forget and forgive me for the rant.

    Symphony 21.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Tue, Apr 6 2021 5:39 PM In reply to

    • Pulck
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Fri, May 26 2006
    • London, UK
    • Posts 152
    • Points 1,955

    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    luca.mg:

    Well I know real life is tough, but in an ideal world I'd say that it's up to the post house to conform and online from whatever NLE the editor uses, and it shouldn't be an offline editor's problem how to ingest the footage according to the post workflow. Moreover, if I was the post house I'd want to make sure that the product can be mastered, so I would create the proxies myself and give them to  the editor in order to prevent troubles down the road. Forget and forgive me for the rant.

    You're absolutely right, of course. I can't go into the whole backstory but I was trying to help out and a troublesome project without appreciating the difficulties of moving between Avid and Premiere. Crazy of me, but I'd thought AAF was an "interchangeable" file format! Oh well, you live and learn....

  • Tue, Apr 6 2021 6:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    Having run a post house I can say it costs you the more work and risk involved in a workflow.

    All post houses have their tested and known workflows and will quote based on those. Ask them to do something they don't have as a tested service and you are in unknown territory. They either quote you more to cover the extra work and testing (and possibly manual recutting) or they swallow that cost and squeeze the work elsewhere.

    There is no rule that says every finishing system must accept every offline output. And so often you hear of nightmare situations caused as softwares evolve and change.

     

    I would always suggest finishing on the same system you offline on. Even getting to and from say Resolve for the grade can be a dance.....

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  • Tue, Apr 6 2021 9:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    My best practice is to offline on the same system the online will be done with... saves time, money and headaches. I've been there tinkering too many times to do anything but. 

    Media Composer 2021.03 Symphony Phrase Find Script Sync Dell XPS 8940 Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900 CPU @ 2.80GHz 2.81 GHz 10cores 96.0 GB RAM NVIDIA... [view my complete system specs]

    "Don't go by my script, they're always wrong." - producer to me while editing

  • Wed, Apr 7 2021 9:14 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    Don't know if this is going far too OT, anyway: as an editor I work with my NLE of choice, the one I'm most fluent with, faster, and that doesn't interphere with the creative process, I think of the cut, not how to operate the software. I don't know every single NLE out there, and I do not switch software to please the post house, which has to serve the product, it's not the other way round. We are talking of TC here, it's merely numbers, anyone can do some math and conform from some sort of EDL, AAF, XML, whatever. And we're talking Avid and Resolve, not some obscure NLE, every decent post house out there has to be able to deal with them. I'm glad for You who are able to jump from one software to another at the blink of an eye, but that it's not me, my apologies, and I believe that it's better to fully know one single NLE than knowing a little of many, so that I can always run at full throttle. YMMV

    Symphony 21.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Wed, Apr 7 2021 10:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    It's true any Post House can conform from an EDL. Manually working out what sources to link to, rebuilding a the effects titles etc.

    But it's a slow process.

    Bring in an Avid bin or open a premiere project and the conform and online are way simpler and faster.

    Using an AAF or XML is the next best but invariably suffers if between different systems.

    So yes if course the offline editor should work on the system they can best be creative on.

    And that's why a production will often choose an editor who can work on the NLE that best suits the whole post process.

    If a particular editor has to be used and their offline NLE has to be a particular one then either a new Post finishing route is needed or it's going to be more expensive/difficult.

    Online finishing and conform time is expensive (relative to the cost of offline) so unless budgets are large its key that additional costs aren't incurred just for the sake of it.

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Wed, Apr 7 2021 11:15 AM In reply to

    • Pulck
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Fri, May 26 2006
    • London, UK
    • Posts 152
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    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    Point taken that I should not have offered my (Avid offline) services on this (Premiere Pro) project. I think my best option is to learn some basics of Premiere Pro, since the edits I'm doing here are really very simple.

    However, this whole discussion does sort of make a mockery of the idea that AAF is an interchangeable file format. Presumably there's not much in it for NLE companies to offer nice, clean AAF files. Which makes me think there might be a market for a software solution to this - a sort of Automatic Duck for Avid/Premiere/Resolve. If only I knew how to code....

  • Wed, Apr 7 2021 12:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    Pulck:
    I think my best option is to learn some basics of Premiere Pro, since the edits I'm doing here are really very simple.

    Sounds like the best solution for now. You can learn the basics of Premiere in a coffee break and it'll save you a lot of time compared to all sorts of software roundtrips!

    MC: 2021.6 with Symphony and Phrasefind CPU: AMD Threadripper 1950X GPU: GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11G RAM: 64GB Kingston HyperX Predator HX430C15PB3K4/64... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 7 2021 1:28 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    Do You guys mean that You finish in Avid with its poor colour correction, titles, effects, and the like? I cut on MC and mostly finish either in Resolve or AfterEffects, or a mix between them (colour correction in Resolve and titles & effects in AE). The roundtrip works pretty well and I do not feel like being a troubleseeker who loves to waste valuable and expensive post time dancing and tinkering instead of finishing. Again YMMV.

    Sure I do not believe that the OP after learning the abc of Premiere in a coffe break will be as fast and creative as he would be on MC. I did that myself and it has been a struggle to achieve a result below my standard. In other words, given the same editing time, I would have done much better in MC. The abc can't give You the same result as an a to z knowledge of the editing tool, IMHO.

    I also find it bizarre on an Avid forum to push an Avid editor to use a competing product, but it must be me being an old fashion kind of chap!

    Symphony 21.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Wed, Apr 7 2021 2:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    luca.mg:

    Sure I do not believe that the OP after learning the abc of Premiere in a coffe break will be as fast and creative as he would be on MC. I did that myself and it has been a struggle to achieve a result below my standard. In other words, given the same editing time, I would have done much better in MC. The abc can't give You the same result as an a to z knowledge of the editing tool, IMHO.

    I also find it bizarre on an Avid forum to push an Avid editor to use a competing product, but it must be me being an old fashion kind of chap!

    Nobody is pushing the topic starter to use a competing product. We're just trying to think along in what makes the most sense in the given situation. Since the job is described as "really very simple", I do think learning the basics of Premiere would be sufficient, and worth it, if it ends up taking less time than trying to figure out how to bridge a gigantic gap between two different pieces of software. However, we also provided ideas and instructions on how it can be done by sticking to Avid, so there's plenty of choice in this thread if you ask me.

    Besides, I don't believe there is a thing like an "Avid editor". There are editors, or rather: people who edit. What software they use is not that relevant (except on an Avid forum I guess ;). It's just a tool. Operating an application is only a minor part of your skillset.

    MC: 2021.6 with Symphony and Phrasefind CPU: AMD Threadripper 1950X GPU: GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11G RAM: 64GB Kingston HyperX Predator HX430C15PB3K4/64... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 7 2021 3:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Is it possible to offline in Avid MC and conform/online in Premiere Pro?

    It all depends on time and budget. But in my experience of UK TV deliveries Media Composer (well symphony actually) works sufficiently well for most of my needs. In symphony the colour correction is enough for corrections and finishing.

    I can do tracked blurs and mosty of the fixes I need. Admittedly the curretn titleing solution is still unworkable so I generate titles in After effects (an application I learnt to solve the titleing issue in Avid) and I can generate and bring in alpha graphics and titles.

    So yes Symphony works a sa good finishing solution for many UK TV projects. Its a fast established robust solutionn and I can quote tight attractive prices.

    We did have client who wanted a more demanding grade and we'd round trip to Resolve (after having worked out and tested a robust round trip process) and that worked well.

    What I love is when a client has paid for an expensive Resolve grade and then needs to change a shot later. And I'd replace the shot and match the grade in Symphany. To watch the clients jaw drop when you could replicate a grade there and then in the timeline. Priceless.

     

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

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