Latest post Fri, Sep 21 2018 4:49 PM by Marianna. 13 replies.
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  • Wed, Jun 29 2016 2:42 PM

    AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    Dear community,

    today I stumbled about something I just can call a bug.

    The setup: Avid MC 8.5.3 on OSX 10.10.5 and ProTools 11.3.1 (the system base of that machine I don´t know as it is at a customer. I presume Windows 7)

    We wanted to exchange a long sequenz 55min as AAF for voiceover recording and mixing in Protools.

    AAF Export  with following settings:

    - aaf edit protocol checked

    -include video unchecked

    - include all audio tracks checked

    -consolidate media and media in folder, not embedded in AAF

    - handle lenth 500 frames

    - convert audio sample rate to 48kHz checked

    - convert audio bit depth to 24bit checked

    - convert audio file format to MXF checked

    - Include rendered audio effects and render all audio effects unchecked

    Sequence settings are 1080p25 and most of the footage also is 1080p25, transcoded as DNxHD120. I exported a Quicktime.mov video in h.264 with stereo audio downmix as reference track and gave it also to the protools.

    Everything looked fine at first glance, AAF export without errors, import in protools without errors.

    But then we found out that on archive footage that was in 108050i and therefore got an motion adapter applied in avid, the audio became async in the protools timeline. The segment itself still was exactly at the right place and timecode like in the avid sequence, but the audio content inside the segment got shifted for a random amount, like 4 seconds, 2 seconds... without any logic! Really scary!

    Importing the aaf back in the avid mc 8.5.3 and also in an older avid mc 7.0.4.3 didn´t show this issues, everything was perfectly in sync. It just happened inside the protools.

    I did some research and found in threads on this forum and also in some avid KB article that there have been issues with AAF from sequences with mix and match, different framerates and motion adapters but there the problems only were of the following kind:

    - media was offline (could be solved by "render audio and include audio" checked)

    - segments lost their handle length ability

    But no word about async issues the way we experienced them. And those posts mainly were from the year 2010 and it was told that with protools 9 many issues got solved. Bu we used protools 11.3.1!

    I also tried exporting the aaf with include rendered audio effects and render all audio effects checked but this didn´t change anything, the problem was still there.

    What solved the issue for me was, that I changed the field motion setting on all the archive elements from interlaced to progressive in the bins and then i did a "refresh motion adapters" execute for the  sequence in avid mc. After that all the motion adapters in the sequence disappeared (i double checked in the sequence report file) and then the newly exported AAF (this time render audio effects and include was unchecked again) imported fine in protools and the async issues were gone.

    So I think I´m safe to say that there is a bug in handing over AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapter effects in the sequence. I could´t do a comparison with an aaf from an older Avid MC version and I also cannot check if this error still exists in newer Protools versions. But maybe others can try and tell here if they get similar results with this workflow.

    The dangerous thing about this: The rest of the sequence isn´t affected. I had installed sync points before and after the sequence and everything was perfectly sync. Just the audio belonging to video files that got a motion adapter because of the 50i -> 25p conversion applied were affected, resulting in this strange shift of the contents of the segments. 

    Any ideas and experience is ggreatly appreciated. I will also send this bug report to avid support.

    Thanks and best regards,

    Felix

     

    Avid MC 2018.12 / NitrisDX / HP z840 / Windows 10 Pro 64bit / winVer 1803 / Interplay - Media Central Production / ISIS 5500 storage / Client connection... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jun 29 2016 4:41 PM In reply to

    • RalphC
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    Longhairman:

    Any ideas and experience is ggreatly appreciated. I will also send this bug report to avid support.

    Thanks and best regards,

    Felix

     

    Did you send a bug report to support team already, may I have the case number.

     

     

    Regards,

    Ralph

    MacBook Pro 15 2018 Intel Core i7 2.6GHz Mac 10.15.7 Intel UHD 630. [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jun 29 2016 5:06 PM In reply to

    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    Dear RalphC,

     

    thanks for answering. Yes, I submitted it to support team, case number is 02988808

     

    Thank you and best regards,

    Felix

    Avid MC 2018.12 / NitrisDX / HP z840 / Windows 10 Pro 64bit / winVer 1803 / Interplay - Media Central Production / ISIS 5500 storage / Client connection... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jul 27 2016 2:51 AM In reply to

    • ajrnz
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    Hope this gets fixed soon, having to down grade all my suites NOT fixed in 8.6

     

    Edit: also happens on import to pro tools 12.4, Avid 8.4.4 not effected exports work as expected

           Effects Windows platform as well as mac

  • Wed, Jul 27 2016 3:59 AM In reply to

    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    Have you tried testing this issue by making a new, audio only sequence. Use the same start TC as your edit sequence. Load your edit sequence in the Source monitor. Patch the audio tracks. Then editing the audio only into this sequence.  Use this sequence as your AAF Export..

    If it works you could try a faster process of just duplicating your sequence and then deleting the video tracks in this sequence.  Ceck that this works. (I have always worked this way without issues)

    Another option would be to mixdown your video to a Pro Tools friendly video format (DNx 36?). Duplicate your sequence and edit the mixdown into V1 and delete all other video tracks. This has an advantage in that you can then export a Same as Source QT with audio. Open the AAF and import the SAS video with audio in Pro Tools for a video with an audio guide track in the Session.

    Name and keep all new sequences made during the export process so you can follow (re create) any of the media at a future date if required.  

  • Thu, Jul 28 2016 7:01 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    Good idea Andrew and one I was going to suggest.  

    Can you try that and report back.  If it doesnt help then I can add this to the case for you directly

    Marianna

    Director of CSM | Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Sep 1 2016 12:17 PM In reply to

    • Reanimated
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    I've also notised the problem. we just went back to 8.2.5 and now it works.

  • Sun, Sep 4 2016 2:29 PM In reply to

    • Reanimated
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    AndrewAction:

    Have you tried testing this issue by making a new, audio only sequence. Use the same start TC as your edit sequence. Load your edit sequence in the Source monitor. Patch the audio tracks. Then editing the audio only into this sequence.  Use this sequence as your AAF Export..

    If it works you could try a faster process of just duplicating your sequence and then deleting the video tracks in this sequence.  Ceck that this works. (I have always worked this way without issues) 

    Tried both. none worked. I was working in 1080i50 but the footage was 1080p25. As soon as i switched the format to p everything worked nice. The sequences that I had problem with worked in pro tools 10 something.

     

  • Sun, Sep 4 2016 8:18 PM In reply to

    • ajrnz
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    Reanimated:
    Tried both. none worked. I was working in 1080i50 but the footage was 1080p25. As soon as i switched the format to p everything worked nice. The sequences that I had problem with worked in pro tools 10 something.

     

    That would also explain why it happened to me no matter what I did as we had mixed 50i and 25p media.....

  • Sun, Sep 4 2016 8:57 PM In reply to

    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    ajrnz:
    as we had mixed 50i and 25p media.....
    Do you use video mixdowns? They should eliminate any 50i, 25P timeline issues.

  • Sun, Sep 4 2016 9:17 PM In reply to

    • ajrnz
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    AndrewAction:
    Do you use video mixdowns? They should eliminate any 50i, 25P timeline issues.

     

    We were reciving the material, so only getting the AAF and was unable to check the video timeline, But I doubt that would fix it.

    Importing the AAF (no video so nothing to mixdown) into the SAME version of avid and re-exporting resulted in the same audio sync error, But importing into and old version of avid and re-exporting fixed it, it seems to be tied to the audio tracks so altering the video after the fact would probably not help.

    If I got them to import the video at the project frame rate the slow way (not ama then transcode), it would probably sort it, but who has time to retroactively do that to 100's of hours of footage. It would be betted if avid haden't pissed around with it to start with.

  • Sun, Oct 16 2016 3:25 PM In reply to

    • Reanimated
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    My findings so far is that if your project is progressive and you got material that are interlaced (or vice versa) you will get audio out of sync when opening the aaf in protools. It does not matter if you delete the video tracks or make a video mixdown. 

    The only solution that have worked is to set the project to progressive if the material is progressive (or interlaced if interlaced) do a refresh sequence before exporting aaf. This only works if all material (linkded to audio) is either progressive or interlaced.

    If you got mixed material, the only thing that have worked for me is to do a transcode and then do a refresh sequence.

  • Thu, Sep 20 2018 9:56 PM In reply to

    • gorky
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    I have the same bug with the AAF export from MC 2018.7.1 from sequnce with mixed video 50i and 25p.

    After 2 years bug remains untouched.

    [:'(]

    MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019), 2,4 GHz Intel Core i9,32Gb RAM, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8Gb, OSX 10.15.3 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Sep 21 2018 4:49 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: AAF from Avid MC 8.5.3 to Protools 11.3.1 with motion adapters creates async segment contents

    Gorky

    I know that some work was done on the PT side of things - PT-222492 - and those fixes were implemented in PT 12.5 and higher so if the audio is coming from a PT 12.4 or earler it will happen.

    The clips are in the correct location on the timeline with MC however the media inside them is "slipped" by varying amounts.  this broke with PT 11.2.x

    If you turns of handles the problem goes away, though this isn't reasonable work around as the handles are crucial to mixing, also the "slip" amount is not the handle amount.   

    Marianna

    Director of CSM | Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]
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