Latest post Mon, Nov 17 2014 1:09 PM by yuvii. 20 replies.
Page 1 of 2 (21 items) 1 2 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 1:40 PM

    • yuvii
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Oct 5 2014
    • Posts 5
    • Points 55

    Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    In all the forum history, I only found one thread about this, and it was posted 7 years ago. Even then, it quickly devolved into talk about ffmpeg conversion and other less related stuff.

    So I'm reposting the subject, and asking - is there or will there ever be avid support for Linux? I'm especially interested in Avid Media Composer. I'm gonna be a Film student next year, and as far as I understand Avid is the professional software used in the industry. Ubuntu (the most popular Linux OS) has gone on to become very user-friendly, stable and powerful platform. Especially in the last years, it saw a rise in both usage and in support by large companies - including Steam and Google (chromeOS is a Linux distro). 

    For me, Windows is a nightmare, and Macs are very pricey. Knowing there's a Linux version of Avid planned or on the way will be a game-changer for me (and probably alot of other people as well). I would love to know the official stance on the subject. Even if it's a negative one, knowing for sure is better than not knowing at all.

    So, any ideas?

     

    p.s.

    I know there are open source projects for video editing in Linux too, but I'm interested in professional tools people use in the industry. They might be good for a small project or too, but in the long run it's usually better to use software developed by large established companies.

  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 1:59 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Bayonne NJ
    • Posts 4,409
    • Points 54,795

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    Its a matter of as you say professionalism. Very few people here have anything against Windows 7, and the MAC OS. They have a massive support structure behind them. Linux has had a reputation for herding cats as far as direction.

    Professionals understand that there are costs for development and deployment of software, and for the confidence that any problems that arise shall be delt with quicky. Video editing involves some open and copyrighted codecs, some licenced. Video cards also have to have complex drivers written for these processes.

    When you look at the total costs of editing, the purchase of the OS is a very small portion.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, Quadro K620/GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 21.5. Win 20H2  Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 18/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 2:15 PM In reply to

    • yuvii
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Oct 5 2014
    • Posts 5
    • Points 55

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    Ok, so lets get the price out of the way. I don't mean to say anything bad about Windows or Mac. That's not the point. I just like Ubuntu better. I think it has a better UI, is faster and easier to use. My point was that the reputation of Linux isn't true anymore. It became exactly what you're describing - a stable software with massive support structure behind it (Ubuntu is, anyway)

    There's no contradiction between copyrighted codecs and using them within Linux. Video Card support is on par with Windows these days (a change that was brought on because of the recent rise in gaming support). Those drawbacks are nonexistent anymore.

    The purchase of the OS is indeed a very small portion, but hardware isn't so much. Linux is hardware-friendly and can run on very basic machines. It's also a lot more powerful and efficient than Windows and Mac (in that aspect, it would be a better platform for heavy graphical work).

    The real question is - how complicated will it be for Avid to port to Linux. I'm mostly interested to know if this is something that's being concerned. There are valid reasons as to why not to support Linux (the user base is still small, it's not an existing market), but there are also counter arguments for them (the user base is growing and is compromised of mostly creative people, which might prove a larger market compared to other OS. It's not an existing market - but that might be a good thing, because then Avid will be the only provider for the platform).

    I don't claim to know if it's a good idea to port to Linux, but I'd love to know if anyone thought about it, considered it, or is willing to consider it. 

  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 2:40 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Bayonne NJ
    • Posts 4,409
    • Points 54,795

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    I can't speak for Avid, but the cost of certifying another hardware/OS/ Videocard/hardware/driver permutation would be extroadinary. There is also the problem of Quicktime compatability, on which Avid is very dependant.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, Quadro K620/GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 21.5. Win 20H2  Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 18/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 2:55 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,869
    • Points 46,710

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    If you look at flame / smoke as an example (They run on Linux) you can see some of the challenges.  They had to develop a custom kernal to get the performance they wanted.  Now users are dependant on Autodesk to keep that kernal up to date.  And users complain about the lack of updates to the kernal and the therefore relatively "old" set of OS features.

    You can also look at Resolve which is available for all 3 OSs.  I do not know whether Blackmagic requires a specific Linux build to guarantee that the product will work, but I would imagine so.

    I just can not see Avid on Linux as a realistic product.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 3:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    I use Avid on Windows and Mac.

    And I have to say I find windows 7 to be rock solid and stable over many years with few changes that impact on my use of the OS.

    The MAc side isn't the same any more. Frequent OS updates that break so many applications and significant UI and OS changes make supporting the Mac side ever hard and endless.

    And we have a StorageDNA system that runs under linux and while it's stable and Ok the UI (centos I think) is very basic and limited  and far too much involves terminal mode command line stuff. (even the Mac has that sometimes)

    I just don;t have time for that level of OS under the hood work. So windows wins for me.

    The OS is just aprt of the toolset.

     

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

    Filed under:
  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 3:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    I agree with TVJohn, Linux/Unbuntu could be the best OS out there since the dawn of man, but because it's not widely used there is no economic value in Avid developing software for that platform. It's all about percentages and return on investment for their R&D. Plus, tech support and everything else that goes along with software development. 

    The same reason why so many mobile apps are built for iOS and Android, but Windows phones often get left behind. 

     

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 4:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    jef:
    If you look at flame / smoke as an example (They run on Linux

     

    .- Nope, not anymore, they run exclusively on OSX.

    Lenovo E32 ThinkStation Intel Xeon E3-1245,16GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro 600 (1 GB), Windows 10 Pro x64 (up to date) USB 3.0, Lite-On SSD 256GB System Drive... [view my complete system specs]

    Remembering my friend Larry Rubin

    "Art can't exist without Craft"

  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 4:47 PM In reply to

    • GT
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • South Africa
    • Posts 418
    • Points 4,580

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    If you visit the Adobe Creative Cloud Forums you'll find many pages of discussion on this subject, as Adobe programs (e.g. Photoshop, After Effects, Audition etc.) also don't run on Linux. Many MC editors use these Adobe products as well, so it would not be much use if Avid was the only one to develop a Linux version.

    MC Ver 8.7, Intel Core I5, NVidia Quadro FX 570, 16Gb Ram, 250 Gb system drive, 2 Tb Render/Media drive, Windows 7 64bit Pro, QT 7.6.6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 6:01 PM In reply to

    • yuvii
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Oct 5 2014
    • Posts 5
    • Points 55

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    Wow, so much discussion. Thanks everyone for speaking your voices, it's really good. I'd like to add that I'm also active on the discussions in the Adobe forums and the people there are just the worst. They keep being condensending and bad-spirited and quickly drive the discussion to mocking Linux users. Everyone here is very nice and straightforward, and it's really good to see that Smile

    Pat Horridge:

    I use Avid on Windows and Mac.

    And I have to say I find windows 7 to be rock solid and stable over many years with few changes that impact on my use of the OS.

    The MAc side isn't the same any more. Frequent OS updates that break so many applications and significant UI and OS changes make supporting the Mac side ever hard and endless.

    And we have a StorageDNA system that runs under linux and while it's stable and Ok the UI (centos I think) is very basic and limited  and far too much involves terminal mode command line stuff. (even the Mac has that sometimes)

    I just don;t have time for that level of OS under the hood work. So windows wins for me.

    The OS is just aprt of the toolset.

     

    Windows 7 is indeed very solid, but frankly I have doubts about Windows 9 (uh... 10?) and the direction they're taking. It seems to be similar to Mac - big frequent changes that break things. 

    Linux used to be just like you're describing. I used to hate it for that. Clumsy basic UI and unreliable where installing something can ruin everything.

    But somewhere after Ubuntu 12.04 was released they took a major leap. And it's really really stable ever since. I recently installed 14.04 (the latest) and everything was smooth. I did not need to deal with any issues. Since then, trying out Windows 8.1 and Mac (on a VM) I can honestly say Ubuntu is the best experience I've had.

    Perhpas it's time to re-evaluate support for it? I don't know. It sounds like you're one of the developers, and I really appreciate you giving the time to answer here. I don't disrespect anything you say and if you say it's too much involvment that isn't worth it, I'll take your word at it.  

    However, there is a steady rise in ChromeOS usage, which is Linux based. I know they use little space (that's part of their "oh wow the cloud woww" idea) and Avid is considered "heavy" software, but still, Photoshop is looking into a "streaming" port, and I can only guess that with Mac being more complicated and less a favourable, Ubuntu might be filling a hole? I'm just speculating because I like to hope there's a shread of truth. I know there's a good chance I'm completely wrong...

     

    TVJohn:

    I can't speak for Avid, but the cost of certifying another hardware/OS/ Videocard/hardware/driver permutation would be extroadinary. There is also the problem of Quicktime compatability, on which Avid is very dependant.

     

    I don't know how complicated that task would actually be, however Quicktime support is now very good in Ubuntu (it's part of a wonderful package called `ubuntu-restricted-extras`)

     

    Jef:

    If you look at flame / smoke as an example (They run on Linux) you can see some of the challenges.  They had to develop a custom kernal to get the performance they wanted.  Now users are dependant on Autodesk to keep that kernal up to date.  And users complain about the lack of updates to the kernal and the therefore relatively "old" set of OS features.

    You can also look at Resolve which is available for all 3 OSs.  I do not know whether Blackmagic requires a specific Linux build to guarantee that the product will work, but I would imagine so.

    I just can not see Avid on Linux as a realistic product.

    Jef

    I don't know how unrealistic it is. Support for Ubuntu by major companies is on the rise, and a solution to it might also be a solution for the quickly escalating chromeOS usages (which, despite being a "low-on-space" OS, might still want to provide a tool for editors as well). I won't dismiss the idea entirely.

    From what I read, it looks like they don't "support" linux as much as "send you an entire pre-built linux with our software" (so, uh, a little more involved than just kernel changes). But that's just if I'm reading this right, currently their site is not very detailed (I see no 30-days evaluation or something in sight, so I might never be able to check it out). Also, they have a 30K version which is a lot of money. I uh... I'm gonna be a student, right? I want professional software, but I still have some (slight?) economic limitations...

     

    update

    yeah, their system requirements are CentOS and an NVidia driver. But those are reasonable requests. If Avid would port to Ubuntu, but only with some specific supported drivers, it would be a reasonable decision that would impact what hardware I buy. 

     

    Kenton.VanNatten:

    I agree with TVJohn, Linux/Unbuntu could be the best OS out there since the dawn of man, but because it's not widely used there is no economic value in Avid developing software for that platform. It's all about percentages and return on investment for their R&D. Plus, tech support and everything else that goes along with software development. 

    The same reason why so many mobile apps are built for iOS and Android, but Windows phones often get left behind. 

    Ubuntu usage is low, but it's still better than ever. And you need to remember that while 90% of the market (now a bit less I think) is Windows, most of those are just that - users. People who use Ubuntu (and Mac too), tend to be on the more productive line of work, so the usage stats might not reflect the actual market.

     

    Graham Tees:

    If you visit the Adobe Creative Cloud Forums you'll find many pages of discussion on this subject, as Adobe programs (e.g. Photoshop, After Effects, Audition etc.) also don't run on Linux. Many MC editors use these Adobe products as well, so it would not be much use if Avid was the only one to develop a Linux version.

     

    I have. And I'm part of the discussion there too. I should add that I managed to install Photoshop CS6 on Ubuntu using Wine and it runs flawlessly. So far I had less luck with Adobe Premiere (another alternative), but I'm still trying. And don't think I didn't try with Avid as well (it crashed after trying to install something Avid relies on, I don't remember the name exactly, something with a `z`... I dunno). Hopefully with Photoshop Streaming coming to ChromeOS we will see Linux support coming from that direction (even though Adobe has a history of dissing on Linux users)

     

     

  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 8:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    Another point to consider is the fact that Avid is more than Media Composer.  They also sell a lot of other hardware and software, and in many cases they're selling millions of dollars of equipment and software to facilities that need that stuff to run all day, every day.

    That's not to say that Linux can't do the job or isn't suitable, but that selling the idea of using something other than Windows or Mac to a bunch of film & TV engineers is a formidable task.  I've known TV engineers who were happy to try something new in a small capacity that wouldn't have a catastrophic impact if it didn't work right away, but I've never met one who would be willing to risk their operation on a technology that wasn't already proven in wide use.

    So it's a chicken & egg situation.  If Avid wanted to develop for Linux, there'd need to be a market for it, but the market that they serve is happy with Windows & Mac, and isn't inclined to change.

    p.s. Add in all the audio facilities based around ProTools, and I wouldn't expect to see Linux development in Avid's future.

    Media Composer 2021.6 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Sun, Oct 5 2014 9:24 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,869
    • Points 46,710

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    Carlos Sardá:

    jef:
    If you look at flame / smoke as an example (They run on Linux

     

    .- Nope, not anymore, they run exclusively on OSX.

    I believe you are incorrect.  Flame Premium is still Linux.  Flame Assist is OSX.  There is a smoke version for OSX which has been feature reduced.  The full featured smoke is now Linux only.

    Check the Autodesk website for info (good luck there though).  FXguide is also a good place to check on this.  That is where I confirmed by info.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Mon, Oct 6 2014 12:51 AM In reply to

    • TVJohn
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Bayonne NJ
    • Posts 4,409
    • Points 54,795

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    Realisticly, the chance of a Linux version is close to zero.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, Quadro K620/GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 21.5. Win 20H2  Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 18/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Mon, Oct 6 2014 1:25 AM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Orlando, FL
    • Posts 506
    • Points 6,800

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    jef:
    There is a smoke version for OSX which has been feature reduced.  The full featured smoke is now Linux only.

    Actually that's no longer correct with Smoke 2015. Essentially Autodesk has decided to split the development trajectory, so that Smoke and Flame are no longer dependent on the same feature set. Smoke as an editor is only the OSX version and available via subscription. The Linux version of the Smoke editing tools are integrated into Flame Premium.

    As far as Linux-based editing software, don't forget Lightworks, which is available now on all three platforms.

    - Oliver

     

     

  • Mon, Oct 6 2014 4:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid ever Linux? (repost)

    jef:
    I believe you are incorrect.  Flame Premium is still Linux.  Flame Assist is OSX.  There is a smoke version for OSX which has been feature reduced.  The full featured smoke is now Linux only.

     

    .- There is only one Smoke version, no such thing as a full featured nor feature reduced:

    http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/smoke/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/System-requirements-for-Autodesk-Smoke.html

    What they now call Flame is a combination of Flame assist and FLARE

    http://www.autodesk.com/products/flame-family/system-requirements

    Lenovo E32 ThinkStation Intel Xeon E3-1245,16GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro 600 (1 GB), Windows 10 Pro x64 (up to date) USB 3.0, Lite-On SSD 256GB System Drive... [view my complete system specs]

    Remembering my friend Larry Rubin

    "Art can't exist without Craft"

Page 1 of 2 (21 items) 1 2 Next >

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller