Latest post Fri, Nov 14 2014 6:30 AM by xavpil. 64 replies.
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  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 5:32 AM In reply to

    • xavpil
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    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    This is not the place for comparison.

    The thread is about hoping AVID will be better than it already is by takng the only few good things others have.

    If 10 things suck in Premiere but 1 rocks why not having it in AVID?

    Saying you can't do this or that in FCP or Premire doesn't make AVID better.

    Like anything or anybody, to improve you have to adapt, make changes and get ideas/insparations from others.

    xavier

  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 10:44 AM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Carlos Sardá:
    Even the derised FCPX (which, BTW, doesn't suck as much as people thinks) is now "Modal".

    I don't think there is any problem with Avid looking at X or PP unique features and seeing if it can work in the Avid workflow.

    Historically Avid led the industry but that has changed.  There are more players now that are very very good.  In FCPX, for example, I love the ability to activate and deactivate any or all clips in a sequence with a click and the v key.  Why not look at that and say "yeah, let's give that to our customers too" (or is this new in v8.1?).  Just make the best product for your customer base.  If that means 'imitation' but it makes the 8-12 hour-a-day user's life better and commits them more to the Avid brand, just do it.

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 1:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Euchrow:

    Honestly Thomas, if you use this function hundreds of times a day you might need to change your workflow and way of editing a bit.....

    ....Always use sync locks in Avid by the way, makes life a lot easier.

    I'm not saying your suggestion isn't a good one. But there might be a more efficient way of editing on Avid than the one you're using right now.

    Once again, that's good advice from Euchrow.

    Thomas, Are you self-taught on Avid, or did you get a kind a hands-on lesson from another Avid editor at introduction? Did you cover this? You can get help here if you are open to it. Describing timeline tools/techniques in words is not ideal, though.

    Complaining does help get attention and amuses many of us as well, who fondly remember our own complaints. Some of which are just as valid after decades of new versions.

    But for you, I think Avid could do much more to demonstrate how it handles this and other everyday techniques, with step by step videos available within MC or a hyperlink away. We didn't have such luck back in the day.

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch AJA i/o Express with Express Card Slot Ignite... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 4:10 PM In reply to

    • Euchrow
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    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Thomas Vickers:
    For instance, say you are going to have a split edit and the audio goes on for a few extra seconds past the last video frame - if you use "extract" to close the gap in the video it will trim that audio.  This is why people have grown used to selecting and dragging.  I am not saying that this is a better way to edit.  I am saying that it is a way of editing that many people I know have grown accustomed to and we happen to believe there is a good reason that we did.

    What I would do in this case:

    1/ sort of FCP way

    - make sure sync locks and smart tools are on

    - Use the yellow roller to click on the left hand side of the Video cut you want to move. You ignore the audio tracks.

    - Drag the cut to the left till the gap is closed. Audio will follow and everything will remain in sync.

    you see, this achieves the same as the 'select all right' tool, and will still feel familiar to FCP users. And sync lock in Avid works a lot better than in FCP, where it would refuse to do the trim if there would be any audio before the video cut.

    2/ (my) Avid way

    - make sure sync locks are on

    - quick lasso around the video cut, and immediately hit P to select 'Trim Left side' or click on the left monitor. All this can be done in one quick hand movement. Again, ignore the audio.

    - type ' -25. ' on the num pad and hit enter. Hitting '.' is a shortcut for '00', so what this does is to trim the left side back for 25 seconds. Of course this is an arbitrary number. It should just be higher than the duration of gap you want to fill. Avid remembers the duration you entered, so you just need to type a duration the first time you do this. From that moment on you just hit enter, and it will automatically trim the cut with the duration.

    Believe it or not, but this is a very fast way of working.

    FREE TIP: most people have the trim button mapped to the U button. Now if you hit 'option-U' Avid re-enters Trim Mode with the last configuration used. Very handy when reviewing complex assymetrical trimming operations.

    Good luck !

    Symphony 2019.6 on Mac Pro Westmere 3.33Ghz 6 core, 48Gb Ram, Nvidia GTX 980, High Sierra 10.13.6, BMD Ultra Monitor 2019.6 on MacBook Pro Retina 2018... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 4:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Euchrow:

    Hey Carlos,

    If you edit 10 to 12 hours a day, and you use a function hundreds of times a day, don't you think it would make a difference if you only had to take one action instead of two to accomplish that function?

    What if I'm working in the middle of an hour-long show and I don't feel like trying to lasso thirty minutes of clips?

    Isn't this a forum for suggesting changes to the program?

    Sorry, I forgot, Avid's perfect, Premiere sucks, and let's all spend a few pages speaking reverently about Avid's trimming function.

    Honestly Thomas, if you use this function hundreds of times a day you might need to change your workflow and way of editing a bit.

    I should clarify.  This situation is really an issue once I have completed a rough cut of a show and then go through to make fine edits. 

    In that instance, when I hit a spot in a show that needs work, I will select right, move the rest of the timeline back to create a little space to work.  I do mainly documentary, so these are not scripted sequences in which I know the timing of the shots is going to stay the same and am simply adjusting trims.

    I will then recut that specific segment to my liking.  At that point, I will have a subsequent gap in the sequence that needs closing - the space I created so that I could work on the problematic section.  Obviously one way to close this space is to select the gap using "T", select all tracks, and then hit "X."

    However, I dislike doing this in many cases.  Often in the situation I've described, there will be split edits, in which the audio may extend past the last video frame (this happens more often than not, because there is often broll nat sounds to contend with or beds of nats to smooth out the scene).  In that case, using the extract method, an edit will be lost and I'll have to recreate it after hitting X.  Also, there is usually a music track underneath.  Hitting X will create an edit within that track.  And the music track has to be active or otherwise I will throw all subsequent music selections out of sync.  Same thing goes for beds of ambient sound that may run under a scene.

    To avoid this, I use opt + select right, which selects all clips without selecting gaps, shift select any clips such as the music clip that I don't want to move, and then slide the sequence back snugly into place.  Perhaps this is idiotic, but I think it does work well in this situation.  However, the modification I described earlier in this thread would be a really nice addition here.

    Am I missing something?  Is there a way to close a gap in a timeline with one action that won't mean retweaking split edits or music edits in the situation I described above?  Please advise if there is - I've been editing a long time but I know these are complex programs - I'm always finding features that I had not used before.

  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 4:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Euchrow:

    What I would do in this case:

    1/ sort of FCP way

    - make sure sync locks and smart tools are on

    - Use the yellow roller to click on the left hand side of the Video cut you want to move. You ignore the audio tracks.

    - Drag the cut to the left till the gap is closed. Audio will follow and everything will remain in sync.

    you see, this achieves the same as the 'select all right' tool, and will still feel familiar to FCP users. And sync lock in Avid works a lot better than in FCP, where it would refuse to do the trim if there would be any audio before the video cut.

    This is a great tip.  Thank you.

    However, I have to tell you that it won't work for my situation a lot of the time.  The issue is that if you have a music track underneath it will slide the music along with the subsequent video.

    Since the music track has a specific start time, this will throw it off for that scene and it will then have to be readjusted.  This is one of the main reasons that I use the "select right" method, because I can then shift+select that music track (or nat sound bed) so that it doesn't slide with the rest of the timeline.

  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 4:46 PM In reply to

    • Euchrow
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    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Thomas Vickers:
    Is there a way to close a gap in a timeline with one action that won't mean retweaking split edits or music edits in the situation I described above?  Please advise if there is - I've been editing a long time but I know these are complex programs - I'm always finding features that I had not used before.

    Read my post above.

    I don't think there is something as 'one action'. Sure, in FCP you can hit 'Option-Select Right' but you still need to drag everything and make sure snap is on, and you music tracks are locked. And dragging takes time...

    Symphony 2019.6 on Mac Pro Westmere 3.33Ghz 6 core, 48Gb Ram, Nvidia GTX 980, High Sierra 10.13.6, BMD Ultra Monitor 2019.6 on MacBook Pro Retina 2018... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 4:51 PM In reply to

    • Euchrow
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    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Thomas Vickers:

    This is a great tip.  Thank you.

    However, I have to tell you that it won't work for my situation a lot of the time.  The issue is that if you have a music track underneath it will slide the music along with the subsequent video.

    Since the music track has a specific start time, this will throw it off for that scene and it will then have to be readjusted.  This is one of the main reasons that I use the "select right" method, because I can then shift+select that music track (or nat sound bed) so that it doesn't slide with the rest of the timeline.

    Well then you don't sync-lock the music tracks, and that will solve your problem.

    What I do is to sync lock every audio track except the last two ones. Those are always empty unless I need to work on a sequence with music. I just slide the music to those two tracks and when I'm done I slide them back up again.

     

    Symphony 2019.6 on Mac Pro Westmere 3.33Ghz 6 core, 48Gb Ram, Nvidia GTX 980, High Sierra 10.13.6, BMD Ultra Monitor 2019.6 on MacBook Pro Retina 2018... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 7:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Euchrow:

    Thomas Vickers:

    This is a great tip.  Thank you.

    However, I have to tell you that it won't work for my situation a lot of the time.  The issue is that if you have a music track underneath it will slide the music along with the subsequent video.

    Since the music track has a specific start time, this will throw it off for that scene and it will then have to be readjusted.  This is one of the main reasons that I use the "select right" method, because I can then shift+select that music track (or nat sound bed) so that it doesn't slide with the rest of the timeline.

    Well then you don't sync-lock the music tracks, and that will solve your problem.

    What I do is to sync lock every audio track except the last two ones. Those are always empty unless I need to work on a sequence with music. I just slide the music to those two tracks and when I'm done I slide them back up again.

     

    Yeah, except that if the music tracks aren't sync locked, then you wind up with a problem in later scenes in the timeline.  Yes, the music under that specific scene that you're working on won't move, so that's good.  But the music cues in subsequent scenes will be thrown off, because the music won't slide with the rest of the timeline.

    I don't mean to belabor this - I really appreciate your sharing the use of the of the yellow roller to close gaps.  I'll definitely use that technique if there's not a music or nat sound bed.  It's just that there usually is.  

    Just trying to explain why I think that using the select right can make sense.

    I worked in Avid before going to FCP (and then coming back).  Most people I know that worked in FCP also adopted this method for this situation because it required only two actions (selecting and dragging - the dragging part being pretty simple and quick given the "snap" mode).  I get that Avid isn't as conducive to this mode of working.  But I don't know why it can't be.  And I don't know why it wouldn't want to be.

     

  • Wed, Sep 17 2014 7:45 PM In reply to

    • Euchrow
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    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

     

    Thomas Vickers:

    Yeah, except that if the music tracks aren't sync locked, then you wind up with a problem in later scenes in the timeline.  Yes, the music under that specific scaene that you're working on won't move, so that's good.  But the music cues in subsequent scenes will be thrown off, because the music won't slide with the rest of the timeline.

    Well you didn't read my answer correctly. You sync lock all tracks except the two bottom tracks. Those are always empty except when you are reworking a scene with music. Then you move the music to those tracks, when you're finished you move them back up again. All the music that's further down the timeline will remain in sync.

    Try it out, and it will solve all your issues.

    PS in FCP you could also use this technique but inverted. You would then lock the bottom two tracks after moving the music to them.

     

    Symphony 2019.6 on Mac Pro Westmere 3.33Ghz 6 core, 48Gb Ram, Nvidia GTX 980, High Sierra 10.13.6, BMD Ultra Monitor 2019.6 on MacBook Pro Retina 2018... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Sep 19 2014 2:09 AM In reply to

    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Euchrow:
    Editing on Avid is different than editing on FCP.

    .- Undisputable truth.

     

    Euchrow:
    I too use 'select all right' in FCP quite a lot, but rarely on Avid.

    .- I also used 'select all right' in FCP millions of times, but I never do so on Avid.

    And I can do it!!

    Lenovo E32 ThinkStation Intel Xeon E3-1245,16GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro 600 (1 GB), Windows 10 Pro x64 (up to date) USB 3.0, Lite-On SSD 256GB System Drive... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Fri, Sep 19 2014 3:03 PM In reply to

    • xavpil
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    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    Sorry Kenton I couldn't figure out the quote-a-quote thing...

    - the whole tracks selection to do anyting in the timeline is ridiculous. So much time wasted selecting/unselecting.

    What do you suggest as an alternative? And in what scenarios is it a problem?

    I don't want to have to select anything other than the clips I need to work on.

    - the way to select clips in the timeline has been well improved but still needs work

    Explain how it needs work.

    The main issue is the "empty" spaces aka fillers. I know they are here because of the "film" days or something like this. But no reason whatsoever to select "emptyness". 

    When I work in complexe timeline I am forced to zoom zoom zoom to get rid of these unwanted empty spaces.

    And I didn't turn off the Select tool then a wrong Click and I have to reselect everything again

     

    - I want to see the waveforms at the Composer level. I don't have time to create a new sequence to drop the audio files

    You don't have to create a sequence. Toggle your timeline view to see the Source monitor contents in the Timeline.

     

    UNfortunaltely I haven't figure out a way to edit or add markers in this view. Maybe i am doing someting wrong....

    xavier

  • Sat, Sep 20 2014 4:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    xavpil:

    - the whole tracks selection to do anyting in the timeline is ridiculous. So much time wasted selecting/unselecting.

    What do you suggest as an alternative? And in what scenarios is it a problem?

    I don't want to have to select anything other than the clips I need to work on.

    If you lasso whatever clip you want to select, it activates the track. Also, if you use Red arrow segment mode to select the clip, I believe it activates the track.

    xavpil:

    - the way to select clips in the timeline has been well improved but still needs work

    Explain how it needs work.

    The main issue is the "empty" spaces aka fillers. I know they are here because of the "film" days or something like this. But no reason whatsoever to select "emptyness". 

    When I work in complexe timeline I am forced to zoom zoom zoom to get rid of these unwanted empty spaces.

    And I didn't turn off the Select tool then a wrong Click and I have to reselect everything again

    If you hold Option (Alt on PC) when you use the Select Left/Right command, it will not select the Filler. I have not tried it to see if holding Option works for other selections such as a lasso.

    xavpil:

    - I want to see the waveforms at the Composer level. I don't have time to create a new sequence to drop the audio files

    You don't have to create a sequence. Toggle your timeline view to see the Source monitor contents in the Timeline.

     

    UNfortunaltely I haven't figure out a way to edit or add markers in this view.

    You can't edit because it is still a source clip you can only edit items on the Timeline, (btw, you can't edit when you're viewing the audio clip in FCP7 or Premiere either). But, you can add Markers etc. 

    When you're viewing the source monitor in the Timeline that is literally all you're doing. You're just seeing the graphical timeline representation of that source material. So you have full capablity to do anything you can do to a clip in the Source monitor, including add Markers. 

     

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Wed, Oct 1 2014 6:40 PM In reply to

    • dsp_418
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    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    I didn't read all the posts, sorry if this has been already mentioned.

    As a new Avid user, after having read comments and articles on forums, blogs, (and experiencing this situation myself coming from other editing apps) I was expecting to read some complains about real time editing of compressed files (for instnace h264) avoiding the need of transcoding first.

  • Wed, Oct 8 2014 6:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Avid is so close from being the best.... but won't make the effort

    I agree you that Avid is "close to Be the Best" but not for the same reason.

    except for the undo in bin level, everything you are asking for already exist.

    for exemple you can sync all your tracks and won't need to select or unselect tracks.

    And clip sélection works now exactly like FCp.

    According to me, MC's real probleme Is Still the effects : No compositing mode, No matchframe nor Timewarp on precompute, pan and zoom very very basic (No shadow, No border, No rotation)

    Regards

    Avid Mediacomposer 6.5.0 Mac/PC with Nitris [view my complete system specs]
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