Latest post Thu, Jul 7 2011 4:40 PM by jef. 9 replies.
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  • Wed, Jul 6 2011 2:30 PM

    • Mahbooty
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    Why AvidDS ?

    Hello!

    I was just introduced to AvidDS the other day and had some basic questions...

    - Why use AvidDS? If I already know and use Media Composer and After Effects.

    - Why aren't the features in DS in updates of Media Composer and/or Symphony? Why do I have to switch over to another piece of software?

    - Why only Windows? Our studio uses Macs with Media Composer & Symphony with Nitris DX hardware, a Unity system and most computers have After Effects on them.

    I've been using Media Composer for around 4 years now. I tried the DS software and the interface has none of the features that Media Composer has. Right off the bat, it is like learning a completely new piece of software. It is a bear to navigate and, aesthetically speaking, is probably the worst design I've ever seen in a program.

    I'm hoping somebody can shed some light on the questions I have.

    Thanks!

  • Wed, Jul 6 2011 2:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Why AvidDS ?

    DS is a different piece of software it's heritage goes back before Avid days.

    Since Avid Acquired the product they have done work to the interface and functionality to help bring it into the Avid family but under the skin it's nothing like a Symphony or Media Composer.

    Many features will seem much less sophisticated than Media Composer many are leaps and bounds beyond what MC can do.

    Some of the strengths are that it can read Media Composer/Symphony MXF media directly so it's very easy to send a Media Composer Sequence direct to DS with all the media and have a DS Sequence that pretty much matches your MC one (not everything comes across completely)

    The effects tree is awesome in DS MC has nothing like it AE has something better than MC but still not a mark on what DS can do.

    DS can work at higher than HD resolutions MC and Symphony are limited to SD or HD frame sizes.

    To be honest you can't really go from a MC to a DS and learn what it can do for you. You'll need to do a DS101 and even the 201 to get any idea of why DS operators so love to create on the DS.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

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  • Wed, Jul 6 2011 3:18 PM In reply to

    • Tommyp
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Jan 25 2006
    • Ann Arbor, MI
    • Posts 74
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    • Moderator: Avid DS

    Re: Why AvidDS ?

    Hope this helps:

    - Why use AvidDS? If I already know and use Media Composer and After Effects.

           Depends on your type of work and workflow. The main reason I can think of is to ask how many times do you have to go back and forth between those two apps? Export a file, make a graphic or effect in AE, go back to MC, need to adjust it, do the wholoe circle again. In DS, it's all right there in your timeline, all non-distuctive, completely adjustable. It will save you HOURS in the long run.

    - Why aren't the features in DS in updates of Media Composer and/or Symphony? 

          the Code for DS and MC/Symphony are two different beasts. Adn in reality, DS is the much more sphisticated of them all. But it doesn't make sense for Avid to put all the same features in all of their apps at different price points. DS does more and is more powerful (not in all ways) and comands a higher price. It's nevere a bad idea to know more than one app, waht happens if you get cut or want ot go somewhere else and they don't have your specific app? Tough to make that jump. So, that's just making yourself more vaulable in the market.

    - Why only Windows?

          Was owned by Microsoft before Avid bought it, so all the code was windows specfic. (can be run in boot camp though)

     

    There are some straight editorial and media management aspects of MC that I would love in DS. But I would never trade composite containers or effects trees for them. WAY TOO POWERFUL. take the time to learn DS, and I suspect you will love having all you need inside of one app. Also, you can offline in DS by capturing you media at a lower res, then your online can be done in minutes/hours vs days. All you do is recature. All of your cuts and effects are already done and seen how they will loook by the clients. Too easy.

     

    Fire back any questions you have, we will all be glad to answer any questions you have. 

     

    Tom

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  • Wed, Jul 6 2011 4:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Why AvidDS ?

    Essentially it's a finishing system unlike Media Composer which is an offline, creative editorial NLE. Of course, the difference between finishing and offline is blurred now. Even if you look at what separates Media Composer from Symphony, you'll see that the difference is slight these days.

    Media Composer is better for narrative or documentary editorial, I think. The purpose of DS is to take all the pieces and put them together in the end, create VFX, titles, color, output to tape, files, etc. In that sense, the intended purpose is close to that of Symphony, but it can do much more than Symphony.

    As you noticed there is a steep learning curve (some disagree) because of an outdated UI and some dead ends in the various modules that comprise the package. But if you invest the time in learning it, you still may not love the UI, but you'll be very fast working in it.

    Igor Ridanovic

    www.HDhead.com

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  • Wed, Jul 6 2011 4:30 PM In reply to

    • Mahbooty
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    Re: Why AvidDS ?

    Thanks for the quick replies and the info!

    - The AvidDS_Readme.pdf says it didn't support dual boot systems and the support website says: Dual boot configurations are no longer supported with all newer releases. Then we watched the video tutorial showing it on a Macbook. Just a little confusing.

    - Also, how does an effect applied in DS translate back to media composer? Can you take in just a video clip or does everything DS does needs to come out of some avid editor?

    I'm sure more questions will arise as we dive further into the software.

    Thanks again.

     

  • Wed, Jul 6 2011 4:31 PM In reply to

    • M-Edit
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Jan 29 2009
    • Posts 226
    • Points 2,615

    Re: Why AvidDS ?

    Mahbooty:
    Why use AvidDS?

     

    Yeah, one wonders...? Wink

     

    Maybe take a look here

    http://dswiki.wikispaces.com/

    and see if watching the Tutorials can shed som light...

    //mike

  • Wed, Jul 6 2011 5:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Why AvidDS ?

    Dual boot stopped with 10.5 (we run 10.3.1 which does all we need and uses our Symphony Nitris Classic hardware)

    With 10.5 you need to go the AJA hardware route.

    We will be evaluating our finishing options when then next version of Symphony hits the ground (well a few months after the initial .0 bugs are sorted!)

    Doesn't look like FCPX will feature in that process for sure and FCP7 was looking like a strong contender but not now.

    I'm hoping Avid Symphony will extend to the Kona card the DS uses and we could once again look at a dual boot option.

    Or even better would be for Avid to do what I have wanted for years. Make DS a plugin for Symphony.

    Use Symphony for tape I/O and conforming tapeless media. Pass the sequence to DS as a software only package. Use whatever I/O Symphony supports (lets hope it's a bundle of different ones) and allow DS to use that for monitoring and then pass the finished media back to Symphony for inclusion in the final playout.

    Then trim out of DS all the now unneeded I/O stuff.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

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  • Wed, Jul 6 2011 6:59 PM In reply to

    • dermot
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Vancouver, Canada
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    Re: Why AvidDS ?

    pretty sure we are talking two diffrent definations of "dual boot"

    Avid's dual boot was between DS & Symp, emphisis on "was"

    Current dual boot would be w7 & OSX...

    d/

    8600 - 3700 - AJA 2Ke - u320 array - Dream Color [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jul 7 2011 4:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Why AvidDS ?

    Mahbooty:

     

    - Also, how does an effect applied in DS translate back to media composer? Can you take in just a video clip or does everything DS does needs to come out of some avid editor?

     

    DS is kind of a last stop, it's not that easy to get a project from DS to MC. It's possible but not very flexible. You can however set up DS to use and generate MXF media that MC can read without importing. You can also push play on DS and capture video and audio in Media Composer. We do this very often. It's fast and simple.


    DS can take projects from other Avid platforms but it doesn't have to. It can also open EDLs or AAFs from any other NLE line Final Cut Pro or Premiere Pro, and it can be used as a one-stop-shop where you start and finish a project in DS.

    Igor Ridanovic

    www.HDhead.com

  • Thu, Jul 7 2011 4:40 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
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    Re: Why AvidDS ?

    To expand on Igor's last post.

    While DS can open EDLs and AAFs, it does not create the most friendly EDLs and can not create an AAF at all.

    This is based on it's heritage as a finishing system.  For good or bad it designed to be that last stop.  So why would you need to export any metadata?  ;)

    This can have some real impact on certain workflows.  But as long as you understand these limits you can work with it.  Though I wish we did not have this limit.

    DS originally stood for "Digital Studio".  The concept being an all in one tool.  As a result, DS has pretty good tools to handle almost anything you need to do.  Are these tools "best of class"?  Not always.  BUT, the ability to work at very high level without ever leaving this one tool can be a huge plus.

    One point about the DS vs. After Effect comparison.  DS does not have a true 3D compositing environment such that After Effects does.  Yes, DS has the 3D DVE.  But this tool is way too limited based on state of the art 3D compositing today to really be compared.  So if this is important to you, check this out very carefully.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.10.0 but playing w 2018.11| OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

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