Latest post Wed, Jun 16 2010 9:18 AM by mjolnarn. 11 replies.
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  • Tue, Jun 15 2010 6:06 AM

    AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    Yes I too was interested in taking advantage of the 80% discount for Liquid users to upgrade to MC.  I downloaded and installed the trial.  I have used MC in the past when I worked for CBC here in Canada and have never liked the UI.  My hopes were that ver 5 would correct some of that but in the end I was not prepaired to invest in yet another set of B.O.B. s and additional hardware.  My HP XW8200 would have needed to be replaced along with a new supported graphic card.  Yes the software only option sounds good but it is a little like getting a $5000 coupon on a Rolls Royce. 

    So I ran and tested it for awhile and in the end I uninstalled it.  Unfortunatly it took out my codecs at the same time.  It might have warned me that these file were shared and not needed anymore but I can't remember if that option was presented.  I went to burn a project to DVD tonight and NOTHING!!  I changed TL's to check.  I changed projects to check.  I rebooted.  I then tried to export an mpeg 2 so I could complete the project on FCP.  That didn't work so I tried to do a Quicktime export which also failed.  It has to be the codecs. 

    Not knowing if a reinstall of the software would stomp on anything I did a print to Betacam first and then backed up the project.  The reinstall of Liquid Chrome HD 7.2 restored the missing files and I am now back in business.

    This post is a courtesy to those Liquid users out there that might run into this trap.  AVID on the otherhand should have tested this a little better.  This is one other reason I am not following the upgrade path.  Bye forever.

     

    FCP is all you need.

     

    Bob

    HP XW8200 with 2gig Ram, Dual Xeon 3.6mhz Liquid Chrome HD 6.1 Pro Digital Analogue BOB, HD-BOB 5 X 146gig Maxtor U320 Raid Betacam UVW1800, DVCpro... [view my complete system specs]
    Robert Woodcock
  • Tue, Jun 15 2010 12:51 PM In reply to

    • morriss
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Posts 216
    • Points 2,930

    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    Oh dear, I tested Liquid when I installed MC4 to check it works for existing projects, but I haven't tried it since the uninstall of MC4 and reinstall of 5.

    I'm not sure about anyone else but I am considering still using Liquid for DVD authoring because I know it is (for me) rock solid for critical projects.  Until I learn Avid DVD and thoroughly test the final discs, I will still want Liquid.

    13" MacBook Pro, Mac Mini (yes it runs OK!) [view my complete system specs]

     

    __________________

    David M

    _________________________

    Still using MC5

  • Tue, Jun 15 2010 3:36 PM In reply to

    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    Robert Woodcock:
    The reinstall of Liquid Chrome HD 7.2 restored the missing files

    The same thing would've happened I bet if you were going the other way.  If you had Avid installed, then installed Liquid and then uninstalled Liquid, I'm betting your Avid codecs would get lost in the mix.  

    Avid fortunately provides the Codecs as a separate installer so you wouldn't actually have to re-install MC.  

    Robert Woodcock:
    FCP is all you need.

    Robert Woodcock:
    I was not prepaired to invest in yet another set of B.O.B. s and additional hardware.  My HP XW8200 would have needed to be replaced along with a new supported graphic card

    FYI, you're going to have to invest in a new computer and BOBs if you're going with FCP.

    MacPro dual 2.66GHz 6GB RAM nVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT Storage: 2TB G-Speed eS with controller card 3x1TB Hitachi SATA-II internals, various external FW/USB... [view my complete system specs]

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Tue, Jun 15 2010 7:06 PM In reply to

    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    I have been using FCP now for some of my HD clients and purchased the Matrox MXO2 a couple of years ago.  At $1500 it is way cheaper that the Adrenaline BOB.  I see that AVID lets you use the MXO mini but doesn't support the full version so they can protect their hardware.

    I still use Liquid Chrome HD for my SD projects and legacy clients.  The HD support on Chrome was difficult and the HD BOB I bought on ebay outputs but doesn't input.  AVID would repair it for $5000.00!!!  It was easier to go to FCP.  Better hardware options.

     

    Bob

    HP XW8200 with 2gig Ram, Dual Xeon 3.6mhz Liquid Chrome HD 6.1 Pro Digital Analogue BOB, HD-BOB 5 X 146gig Maxtor U320 Raid Betacam UVW1800, DVCpro... [view my complete system specs]
    Robert Woodcock
  • Tue, Jun 15 2010 7:28 PM In reply to

    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    Robert Woodcock:
    AVID would repair it for $5000.00!!!

    If you were using Liquid, then you were dealing with the Pinnacle-Avid and not Avid-Avid.  

    Robert Woodcock:
    At $1500 it is way cheaper that the Adrenaline BOB

    The Adrenaline has been EOL for some time, granted, none of the Avid I/O devices are going to be any cheaper than $1500, but my point is that Avid has a whole new line of hardware (NitrisDX and MojoDX) that have been out at least 2 yrs.  

    Did you ever try to install the MC trial on your Mac?  It seems like you're impressions of Avid are based on wrong-doings by Pinnacle, not Avid.  

    This is why Avid should've squashed Pinnacle altogether a few yrs ago, what we get now is botched customer support from Pinnacle reflecting badly on a person's overall experience with "Avid" as a company.  IMO, the real Avid - the makers of Media Composer, Symphony, NewsCutter, DS - is a far cry from the "fake" Avid that is Pinnacle.  

    MacPro dual 2.66GHz 6GB RAM nVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT Storage: 2TB G-Speed eS with controller card 3x1TB Hitachi SATA-II internals, various external FW/USB... [view my complete system specs]

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Wed, Jun 16 2010 12:39 AM In reply to

    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    I worked with AVID Newscutter when I was employed at CBC.  It was a kneecapped version of their high end system.  Even MC has had a blind following over the years.  When your employeer buys the system and trains you on it it is hard to see what else is out there.  Pinnacle Liquid was better left alone and not bought out by AVID.  AVID wanted Studio and killed off the balance even though it took awhile.  I have worked on NewTek Flyers systems that were released too soon.  Early versions of Premier.  My first productive NLE was D/Vision but that only did off-lines and when it was upgraded to full OnLINE it was bought by discreet who then killed it off.  It was by far the most reasonable and powerful system I have ever worked on.  I guess it was too powerful for discreet.  It was almost as powerful as Flame so they lopped it's head off.  Liquid was the only logical upgrade path after that since most of the hardware moved over.  EG Targa 2000 and Targa 3000. 

    I know AVID has followers.  I have had to work with them throughout the years but the user interface and workflow hasn't changed much over the years because it means retraining editors and retraining means down time for broadcasters.  They have learned to cut on a dull knife.

    I adopted FCP because it had a large user base and it was different enough to allow change to make its way up from user groups to development.

    Yes it has happened at AVID but it was slow and costly.  Perhaps it is only now that they have started to listen to the users and make changes.  I still don't like the AVID culture and that is why I'm not an AVID customer any more.  Too bad I still have some of their stock.  That is the only thing that AVID owns that is priced correctly.  It was Pinnacle stock first and it has lost 50% of its value since the take over.

    Sorry about the sour grapes but I don't think that FCP will be EOF'd anytime soon and that is why I cut on what is left of Liquid and FCP.

     

    Bob

    HP XW8200 with 2gig Ram, Dual Xeon 3.6mhz Liquid Chrome HD 6.1 Pro Digital Analogue BOB, HD-BOB 5 X 146gig Maxtor U320 Raid Betacam UVW1800, DVCpro... [view my complete system specs]
    Robert Woodcock
  • Wed, Jun 16 2010 3:24 AM In reply to

    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    If you like FCP, that's fine I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But the only point I'm trying to make is don't compare your experiences however many years ago on NewsCutter or your experience using Chrome as an SD only editor to what might be possible with the newest version of MC on your Mac.

    Robert Woodcock:
    the user interface and workflow hasn't changed much over the years because it means retraining editors and retraining means down time for broadcasters.

    I don't necessarily think that's the case.  The UI and workflow hasn't changed much because it works and has been reliable.  Wheels are round because that's what works best. 

    Robert Woodcock:
    I still don't like the AVID culture and that is why I'm not an AVID customer any more.

    I'd like for you to expand more on this "culture".

    Robert Woodcock:
    I don't think that FCP will be EOF'd anytime soon

    Who knows what the future will hold?

     

     

     

    MacPro dual 2.66GHz 6GB RAM nVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT Storage: 2TB G-Speed eS with controller card 3x1TB Hitachi SATA-II internals, various external FW/USB... [view my complete system specs]

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Wed, Jun 16 2010 5:29 AM In reply to

    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    Robert Woodcock:
    My first productive NLE was D/Vision but that only did off-lines and when it was upgraded to full OnLINE it was bought by discreet who then killed it off.  It was by far the most reasonable and powerful system I have ever worked on.  I guess it was too powerful for discreet.
    I guess you and I have completely different views on DVision's history.  I extensively tested it when it first came out as I was offered it for free to be an early uptaker. After evaluating in a real working situation for a month I declined the free offer. Looking back I think it was a lot like version 1 FCP which came out long after DVision. Both looked good to the casual eye with lots of hype but an in depth study quickly revealed how crippled they really were.

  • Wed, Jun 16 2010 7:24 AM In reply to

    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    I thought that I would hit a nerve.  My original post was a public service.  I see that I have roused the troops to defend the honor of AVID.  It is a tool and nothing more.  I own a Mac and the biblical fandon I see with Mac users is the fandon I often see with AVID.  It is the Chev, Ford thing all over again.  Once again it is a tool and sometimes tools improve with development.  AVID was the only game in town back when things started and because of that there is a belief that nothing is or could ever be better.  They had market share but that is dropping.  Sony, Adobe and especially Apple have given them a bloody nose over the past few years yet the the fans continue to sing the praise of AVID. 

    I know that most independent editors have taken the time to look around at other systems to see what these tools can offer and to also see if they can save some money on workflow.  If they still love AVID then fine.  The people that I but heads with are those that might work in post houses that have owners buy the most expensive systems because the clients seem to think that you can't cut a movie on anything else.  They are the followers that support the AVID culture.  Quality is in branding and not in results or value.  They have also made their choice but perhaps look around sometime and see what else is offered.  Put one AVID system in the front suite for show and cut the movie in the back room on whatever you feel will do the best work at the best price.

     

    I've said enough and vented more than I wanted too.

     

    PS.  Yes D/Vision had it's faults but at the time it was what worked for me and what I could afford. 

     

     

    OK People talk among yourselves.  I won't be back.  Ive got some editing to do.

     

    Bob

    HP XW8200 with 2gig Ram, Dual Xeon 3.6mhz Liquid Chrome HD 6.1 Pro Digital Analogue BOB, HD-BOB 5 X 146gig Maxtor U320 Raid Betacam UVW1800, DVCpro... [view my complete system specs]
    Robert Woodcock
  • Wed, Jun 16 2010 8:15 AM In reply to

    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    Robert Woodcock:
    I know that most independent editors have taken the time to look around at other systems to see what these tools can offer and to also see if they can save some money on workflow.
    FWIW Kenton and I have always been this category,

    Good luck with the move to the "biblical fandon I see with Mac" compounded by the rabid fandom of the FCS crowd.

  • Wed, Jun 16 2010 8:21 AM In reply to

    • Tim
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Dec 18 2009
    • Australia
    • Posts 562
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    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    I too have used FCP in television broadcast for 2 years & Liquid for 6 years both have good features, both have problems too! i was a beta tester for liquid7 & now using MC for 2years but Liquid to me has too many problems! I am so glad I made the change to MC, edting is stress free and fun again! I think you Robert Woodcock need to take more time in MC to give it a shot it is a much more stable NLE than Liquid ever was!...here are some reasons why MC is so much more stress free & liquid is totally STRESSFULL!

    1, Most if not ALL plugins that are used in Liquid are TOTALLY unstable! liquid has a really hardtime with plugins! the studioU render engine that is within liquid, has a BIG in-compatibilty issue! all the high end plugins like Boris fx, red, continum, etc. all of them will not work correctly all the time which makes the hole system un-stable & crash! especially working with long projects

    2, background rendering in liquid is un-reliable sometimes it will work correctly sometimes not!

    3, upon having multiple tracks on top of each other with effects within them liquid becomes buggy resulting in freezing or source & preview monitors go black? & general rendering is slow-ish yes even on a HP Z800 workstation! as on the same system MC rendering is faster!

    4, liquid is allmost totally in-compatible with most quicktime files!

    5, the so-called 2d/3d CPU effects, upon using them, result in lower quality image? on jpegs & yes this is with a Quadro FX card WTF?

    6, effects pallette total mess! hard to find anything! now this is clunky!

    7, liquid takes waaaay toooooo long to shut down (sometimes buggy)

    8, there are many ways to delete a project or sequence in liquid one of them will not give you a layer of warning once this is done it is totally un-do-able! & there is a combination on the key board of certain keys, if you hit them by mistake your sequence is gone forever!

    9, liquid has way to many effects! u say to many effects? how so? yes to many 'cheezy effects' that you will never use! its all about quantity not qaulity with liquid.

    10, all the problems mentioned are with only working in SD standard def!, imagine all of the above problems trying to get a project done in HD/HDV, yes I've tried!, even worse!

    *all these problems arise on a full 'to spec system' PC.

    One of the best things AVID did was to dis-continue Liquid & offer the upgrade to MC well done avid!

     

     

  • Wed, Jun 16 2010 9:18 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Feb 8 2006
    • Sweden
    • Posts 13,346
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    Re: AVID MC trial Uninstall KILLS AVID Liquid Chrome Codecs

    maybe this thread should be moved to the general forum ?

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

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