Latest post Tue, Apr 6 2010 4:08 AM by Mondo. 27 replies.
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  • Thu, Jan 7 2010 12:57 AM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    I'm a bit confused about the reason to go back to the EX1 - this seems like tape based thinking. SXS cards being so expensive are clearly not an archival format in any case.

    So you have options - you can buy an "expensive" $3000 recorder (my DVCam deck cost $8000 and my digital betacam cost - well it makes me cry now but it has paid for itself over the years) and archive to XDCam disks which are more expensive than BluRay or you can archive to BluRay media using the workflows you describe. I think either option is legitimate depending on your setup and cost implications. You also have the less archival option of hard disk on media player as Bob described - fine for playback but I wouldn't recommend it for archiving.

    And theoretically you could go back to the camera using Sony Vegas or FCP but why? Don't get me wrong I can't anticipate every workflow need and yours may be a legitimate one but I can't think of a logical reason to go back to the acquisition codec (XDCamEX) which is inferior to H264 etc for storage in any case, and you have playback well and truly covered with other options. Shoot me down if you like but if you are still loooking to go back to the camera after investigating the other options I'll be surprised.

    The plusses of this new workflow are many - no need to tie up your expensive camera any more to use it as a deck. Your storage format (as it should be) is superior to your aquisition format. You don't tie up really expensive memory cards with master material. Playback is superior and more generic - you can make a BluRay that will play on a client's player. It is all so much more flexible than tape and cheaper.

    Perhaps Avid will end up supporting the workflow you describe - I hope so if it is important to you.

     

    HP Z820 16GB RAM Winx64Pro SP1/Xeon 2620 x 2/Quadro 4000 NitrisDX, Fiber client Unity client 5.3 Build 15440, 4 bay SSD dock (Addonics) Custom build: Asus... [view my complete system specs]

    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

  • Thu, Jan 7 2010 3:18 AM In reply to

    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    I never intended to archive back to the SxS cards--just use the camera for viewing.   All I wanted to do was output my final sequences back to the camera to view them in high def on my big HD TV.   Having just bought the camera, extra batteries, extra SxS card, I don't have the $$$ right now to get a Mojo DX.   I thought, if I could easily export back to the camera, I could view my edited sequences on my TV before going through the time comsuming process of burning to BluRay..   Back when I was working with tape, I always did a output back to tape and played on a big TV before authoring DVD's.   Amazing how you see things on the larger screen that you didn't catch in the composer windows.  I wanted to catch any mistakes on the big screen before burning the BluRay's.   (Waiting several hours to render only to discover something I want to change after I see it on the big screen is extremely frustration...not to mention wasting BluRay disks.)      

    When I originally posted the question, I thought it would be a simple and fast process of exporting back to the camera just to do a quick viewing on the TV.   Now I know that is not viable or even preferable.  It was informative to get all the responses...learning what I can and cannot do with XDCAM EX.   I've gotten more useful information by posting the question on the Avid forum than reading the entire EX1R and XDCAM clip browser manuals!  I appreciate everyone's response.   I have certainly gotten a quick education in a short period to time.     

    I agree...after shooting with the EX1R for a month, going back to tape feels like going back to my old IBM selectric typewriter.  (Yeah, I actually wrote my first scripts on those back in the early-80's!) 

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  • Thu, Jan 7 2010 6:06 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    Terry Snyder:

       All I wanted to do was output my final sequences back to the camera to view them in high def on my big HD TV.  

     I could view my edited sequences on my TV before going through the time comsuming process of burning to BluRay..  

    ...not to mention wasting BluRay disks.)      

    A couple of thoughts

    As you are going into the bluray business, you surely have a bluray player connected to your HD Tv, is that so?

    All - most bd players are also able to play files, my PS3 surely is.

    Also, some of them, as my PS3 , has a usb connection.

    So, for previewing on your HD TV , export to HDV, program stream  edited ..  transport stream  , and put that file on a memory stick, an external usb drive or a BD RE disc if you dont have any usb connection.

    If the file is small enough, it might even be able to add to a dvd disc.

     

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    Tomas 

     

  • Thu, Jan 7 2010 7:02 AM In reply to

    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    BobRusso:
    Another option is to export out a Quicktime/WMV9 file and use a Western Digital Media Player to view it via HDMI on a monitor. The street price for the device is around $100.

    Hi Bob,

    This WD TV I have used as the "cheap" alternative to mojo/nitris DX for outputting HD material. It is a good workaround. But this thread shows again that Avid needs to copy some form of this "cheap" technology that others are able to commercially sell. Lets say an "Avid TV" that can decode DNxHD. Or an Avid HDMI output pci, pci-x or pci-e card for the same price.

    Also this thread kind of re-opens the "end to end" and "supported" formats issue. I find the request of OP not more then fully logical. The way he got the media in he expects to be able to get the media out. It is a workflow we have always had when using NLE's, tape and (digital) video in and outputs for 20 years or more.

    I'm pretty sure that in the next release of MC the import export capabilities will again improve and these is issues will be solved but when will Avid start using the principal of: "a supported format = import AND export"? From a professional NLE I expect no less.

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  • Thu, Jan 7 2010 7:58 AM In reply to

    • biennarc100907
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    A simple cheap suggestion that might work for you. This worked for me for sometime for previews until I got a proper Mojo DX for viewing it professionally. I used to have an extra VGA or DVI cable to output from my PC workstation to my plasma screen. I used to unplug my second monitor and plug the Plasma on it and use the Avid's fullscreen function. That way I could view my edit on the big screen and could edit on the spot too. So all you need is a long VGA or DVI cable.  

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  • Sun, Jan 10 2010 3:48 PM In reply to

    • ronn
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    Mondo wrote the following post at Wed, Jan 6 2010 4:57 PM:

    I'm a bit confused about the reason to go back to the EX1 - this seems like tape based thinking. SXS cards being so expensive are clearly not an archival format in any case.

    Mondo:

    This has nothing to do with archiving. I can't speak for the original poster, but for me the importance of being able to go back to the camera/SxS is that I want to see the uncompressed file play on an HDTV, not an HDV version, not a WMV version. And I don't want to buy a Mojo DX to do it. Enabling this function is apparently not a huge technological hurdle, since FCP, Vegas, and (see below) even Edius can do this easily.

    From the Sony EX forum:

    Edius: Press F11 - XDCAM on the left side - XDCAM EX Plug in ... at the right side and then Export. In the next popup window choose the rest. Edius prompts you if you would like to encode directly to an SxS card or to other media. Done!

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  • Sun, Jan 10 2010 11:51 PM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    ronn:

    This has nothing to do with archiving. I can't speak for the original poster, but for me the importance of being able to go back to the camera/SxS is that I want to see the uncompressed file play on an HDTV, not an HDV version, not a WMV version. And I don't want to buy a Mojo DX to do it. Enabling this function is apparently not a huge technological hurdle, since FCP, Vegas, and (see below) even Edius can do this easily.

     

    But you aren't looking at uncompressed? You're looking at a 35Mb/s compressed MPEG2 stream in SonyEX format.  As a codec it is great for acquisition because it doesn't require the grunt that H264 does to compress. But as a mastering format it sucks. In fact most people recommend doing any secondary work (transitions, keys, CC work etc) in DnxHD because the EX format falls over pretty quickly. If you do that you can't take it back natively to the camera anyway.

    An H264 encoded BluRay @ 19Mb/s through a decent software encoder is going to look very close to the original comnpressed EX stream and BluRay can support higher data rates. 

    However i can see where it might be handy to view rough cuts etc before final mastering if you don't own an Adrenaline, a Nitris or MojoDX. Saves on rendering time, etc. Like I said I hope Avid listens and supports this workflow for those who want it and need it.

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    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

  • Mon, Jan 11 2010 12:08 AM In reply to

    • ronn
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    Mondo:

     

    However i can see where it might be handy to view rough cuts etc before final mastering if you don't own an Adrenaline, a Nitris or MojoDX. Saves on rendering time, etc. Like I said I hope Avid listens and supports this workflow for those who want it and need it.

    Yes, I'm simply talking about viewing a rough cut with no FURTHER compression, without buying a Nitris DX, Mojo DX etc. I am not talking about mastering in EX format MP4.

    Media Composer 2018.9 with Intensity Pro 4K, Lenovo P500, Win-7 64 Prof. 16GB RAM, Nvidia 2200, Sony FS7, EX1, Ninja Assassin, Came-TV Mini2, Harley Dyna... [view my complete system specs]

    Ronn Kilby

    San Diego

  • Sat, Jan 23 2010 5:43 PM In reply to

    • bakalaj
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    Actually, I am looking at the layback to SXS card for a practical reason; I will be working for an overseas broadcaster at the Vancouver Olympics and they need to feed edited pieces back home. They will have only a small office with a SXS deck (not sure the model number of the machine) and it would work easiest if I could layback the timeline onto the card and they could play it back from the deck. I'll be using AMC 4 running on MBP. Any suggestions?

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  • Wed, Mar 31 2010 5:21 PM In reply to

    • CAUCHY
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    ronn:

    Mondo wrote the following post at Wed, Jan 6 2010 4:57 PM:

    ....Enabling this function is apparently not a huge technological hurdle, since FCP, Vegas, and (see below) even Edius can do this easily.

    From the Sony EX forum:

    Edius: Press F11 - XDCAM on the left side - XDCAM EX Plug in ... at the right side and then Export. In the next popup window choose the rest. Edius prompts you if you would like to encode directly to an SxS card or to other media. Done!

    Ronn,  no, d'ont believe that. At that time Edius is the only one capable of doing so.

     For Ppro must buy CineForm ..!!.

    Overall Edius 5.5 is the most "natural" migrates from Liquid 7.2.

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  • Tue, Apr 6 2010 12:19 AM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    Just for the record i didn't write the post above that I'm quoted as writing. Ronn wrote it and included the "Mondo wrote the following". I know nothing about Edius and don't profess to.

    HP Z820 16GB RAM Winx64Pro SP1/Xeon 2620 x 2/Quadro 4000 NitrisDX, Fiber client Unity client 5.3 Build 15440, 4 bay SSD dock (Addonics) Custom build: Asus... [view my complete system specs]

    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

  • Tue, Apr 6 2010 12:33 AM In reply to

    • ronn
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    Just for the record, Mondo, I never said "Mondo wrote the following" - I was addressing my comment TO you by writing:

    "Mondo:" and then addressing the Edius point. Hope we're clear now.

    Good on ya.

     

     

     

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  • Tue, Apr 6 2010 4:08 AM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: Output to XDCAM (Sony EX1R)

    ronn:

    Just for the record, Mondo, I never said "Mondo wrote the following" - I was addressing my comment TO you by writing:

    "Mondo:" and then addressing the Edius point. Hope we're clear now.

    Good on ya.

     

    Never said or implied you did - it was just the way the previous poster had copied your comment it looked like it was mine! I think when you did the original you didn't use the built in quote system from this forum which is how it got out of kilter. Just wanted to make it clear that I'm no Edius expert and that info came from you, not me.

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    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

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