Latest post Tue, Apr 23 2013 9:42 AM by Wolk. 14 replies.
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  • Sat, Dec 6 2008 5:03 PM

    • J.Skaf
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    DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    Hi:

     Sorry if I have asked this before, but I don’t seem to understand or get a definitive answer…

     

    I have a project recorded with the Panasonic HVX200 (Pal)

     

    The footage format is DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p

     

    I recorded in the “1080i/25p” option of the camera.

     

    I use Media Composer 3. I know Avid can edit DVCPRO HD natively.

     

    Since there is no 1080i/25p support in Avid I have two options left to start a project:

     

    1080p/25p:  This one doesn’t let me choose anything in the “raster” option, just “standard”.

     

    1080i/50i:  This one lets me choose the option “DVCPRO HD” in the “raster” menu”.

     

    I have tried both and they both work. I have tried different outputs but really cant tell the difference between the two..

     

    I want to make sure I start my project in the right configuration so once I finish editing I can get the highest quality output for postproduction and color correction in After Effects..

     

    Anyone have experience editing  DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p (PAL) footage from the P2 camera and Avid?

    What project type should I use in Media Composer 3?

     

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    MC 3.0

  • Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:23 AM In reply to

    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    I just did a one-hour doc, shot on P2 in 1080i/25p mode. Upon import, my asst transcoded everything to DNxHD120 (not thin raster, but the regular flavor). I did that because I was told that the Avid does handle DVCPRO-HD natively, but that the Avid simply works faster in non-TR and DNxHD, and that DNxHD is a much better resolution for editing and rendering thahn DVCPRO-HD.

    I worked in a 1080/50i project, and treated everything as progressive whenever it was possible (motion effects). So basically, I kept the format (not the resolution, not the raster, but the format) identical to how it it was written to disk, and finished like that; having progressive frames stored within an interlaced format.

    Sent a same-as-source 601 QuickTime export of the final sequence to the color grading house. They did the grade in NuCoda and exported in QT as DNxHD185. I Imported that QT back into my Avi (at DNxHD185) and did playouts to HDCAM at 1080/50i.

    I would have liked to try and work in a 1080/25p project, but I had no time left to investigate where this might lead to trouble. There was no delivery requirement for a 1080/25p master, so I did not bother.

    There should be no quality difference between 25p within 50i versus 25p within 25p. Any 50i monitor will display as 50i, whether you feed it 25p or 50i. Any 25p monitor will display 25p, whether or not you feed it 25p or 50i (it will simply combine the two fields for each frame). The main advantage of P-projects is that any and all effects (moves, rolling/crawling titles) will move at 25p rather than 50i. However, I vaguely recall reading that BBC for instance requires rolls to be created at 50i, not 25p.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:15 AM In reply to

    • J.Skaf
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    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    Job ter Burg, thanks a lot for your response..

     So I guess DNxHD is the way to go...since it gives me better quality and better working flow than DVCPRO HD..

    Media Composer 3 does let me choose DVCPRO HD, only in the 1080i/50i project..

    Is there much difference between DNxHD 120 and 185?

    I assume 185 is better quality..

    Thanks!

     

     

     

    MC 3.0

  • Sun, Dec 7 2008 11:59 AM In reply to

    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    DNxHD120 does 1.18 mins/GB, whereas DVCPRO-HD does 1.20 mins/GB. DNxHD185 does 0.78 mins/GB. You can find this info in the Help section of MC, if you search for "Estimated storage requirements".

    I chose DNxHD120 because it is a compression ratio that is similar to DVCPRO-HD (slightly higher datarate than DVCPRO-HD). 185 is definitely a higher datarate. If you can spare the storage, you might go for DNxHD185, but I doubt that you will actually get a better end result. You could even go for 185x, which is 10-bit, but since your source is 8-bit, it won't be much of an advantage, if any, AFAIK.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:25 PM In reply to

    • J.Skaf
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    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    Thanks a millon!!!!

    MC 3.0

  • Sun, Dec 7 2008 11:00 PM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    Job ter Burg:
    You could even go for 185x, which is 10-bit, but since your source is 8-bit, it won't be much of an advantage

    True if you're not doing much in the way of effects or colorgrading.  The 10-bit colorspace is very useful for grading.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 8 2008 6:51 AM In reply to

    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    jwrl:
    True if you're not doing much in the way of effects or colorgrading.  The 10-bit colorspace is very useful for grading.

    But wouldn't it make more sense to set the Media Creation tools to render in 185x? Isn't all grading happening in 10bit regardless of source media bit depth?

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 8 2008 10:16 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    Yes, of course you're right (slaps forehead with palm of hand)!  And in fact I only routinely convert to DNxHD when I'm doing external AE compositing.  DNxHD gives me better results both into and out of AE.

    My understanding is that colorgrading will be in 10-bit only if you select green-10 mode in the colorgrade workspace.  At least I believe that's the way it was in 3.0, I haven't checked in 3.0.5.  Could one of the Avid insiders confirm this, or does green-10 just affect monitoring?

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 8 2008 8:24 PM In reply to

    • J.Skaf
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    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    OK I´m finally going to work transcoading all my DVCPro HD footage to DNxHD.

    But...

    If I what to work in a 1080i/50 project, it only let´s me choose "DNxHD 120 - TR"

    If I choose a 1080p/25 project, I get much more options: DNxHD 185, DNxHD 120, etc...

     

    -First, what does the "TR" mean in DNxHD 120 - TR??

    -Why do i only have one option in 1080i/50 projects???

    -Even if my footage is 1080i/25p (this is Panasonics way to deliver progresive media on it´s HVX200, thru and interlace signal) can something go wrong if i use the 1080p/25 project??

    Thanks in advance.

     

     

    MC 3.0

  • Mon, Dec 8 2008 8:32 PM In reply to

    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    DVC Pro HD is using Thin Raster Type as HDV and XDCAM.

    Those formats are 1440x1080.

    Choosing Standard Raster Type will give you 185 and 10 bit but your source isn't that.


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  • Tue, Dec 9 2008 9:03 AM In reply to

    • J.Skaf
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    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

  • Tue, Dec 9 2008 9:09 AM In reply to

    • J.Skaf
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    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    By the way..I supposed that using a 1080i project won´t affect the final result...

    I want to keep that progressive look the panasonic hvx200 delivers...

    Anyone noticed any diference in the final results between editing DVCPro HD 1080i/25 footage in a 1080i and a 1080p project?

     

    thanks for all the help!

    MC 3.0

  • Tue, Dec 9 2008 9:34 AM In reply to

    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    It won't matter, won't affect the "film look".

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Dec 9 2008 9:55 AM In reply to

    • J.Skaf
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    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    Thanks again for all the help!!!Yes

    MC 3.0

  • Tue, Apr 23 2013 9:42 AM In reply to

    • Wolk
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    Re: DVCPRO HD 1080i/25p project in Media Composer.

    Although this thread is 5 years old; I have the same problem.

    I work with Avid Media Composer 6.0 and Panasonic P2.

    I record in 1080i x 25p , so i have to choose between Avid Project type 1080 x 25p or 1080 x 50i

    But when i choose 1080x25p i get those green dots and i can't use effects.

    I'm aware of the fact someone explained a lot in this thread, but i don't have the knowledge to understand everything that is written.. Just want to know which Project type is the best.

    I don't transcode, just edit AMA en then export..

     

    Cheers, 

     

    W

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