Hi all,

We've recently started the process of becoming 'certified' by DG Fastchannel so that we can use  their unattended dropbox for commercials we're posting. Needless to say, it's been a nightmare with all the hoops.. but we've jumped through each one, trying to grab that brass ring..

My question is, have any of you successfully exported from PC MC 2.8 (we're using 2.8.3), encoded to their 720 x 512 MPEG-2 file size, and then uploaded to their automated dropbox?

I've checked, double checked, and everything I can think of is set per the provided info sheets, but we've still had field interlacing problems with the encoded MPEG files.. not to mention crazy spot length changes once the file has been encoded.

We're using Episode Pro ver 4.22 on OSX to do the encoding because of the 720x512 size, but have yet to find the magic set of settings needed to produce an acceptable file. We got the settings file from Telestream that should work, and I've talked to tech support from both Telestream and DGfastchannel, but so far have had no luck figuring out the problem.

Any help / thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Glenn

 Glenn - DG Fastchannel aren't the easiest folks to deal with. But since their stuff is all automated, they need to be iron clad in their rules. During certification, they tend to comment on artistic issues, like "Logo font is too thin". Of course the client provided their logo in a low-res state, so you can't do anything to resolve that issue. Most of our frustration is from their people telling us wrong information on where to post files. The folks in NYC are kinda tough to deal with, the folks in Texas are better/technical. In our experience they are of no help specifying an encoder, but they do pubish workflows for common tools like Avid and Sorensen.

I guess you're in PAL. For a standard def signal they want a 25Mbps Mpeg2, even though the cable company is going to send it out at 2Mbps.  Since the Mpeg2 spec tops out at 9Mbps it was hard finding an encoder to do 25 Mbps in SD.

We make a QT Ref file in the Avid (we don't use the DV Codec) and then we use Main Concepts (I think it goes up to 15Mbps for an SD Mpeg2 file, or Sorensen Pro 5 which you can fool into giving you about 25Mbps in SD by using a HD template. (Sorensen 5 has been crashing a lot for us on batch encodes, and doesn't render multiple files at the same time, like I thought it would, but does see a quad core CPU. Also turn off the default auto deinterlace setting.) I can't expain your "crazy spot lengths" (except wrong frame rate setting) or "interlacing" issues, making an Mpeg2 is pretty straight forward, regardless if it goes on DG, or not. I'm no help with Episode Pro or Telestream. Sorensen 5 is now available on the Mac, and despite some Sorensen 5 bugs, it's very sweet and powerful for all types of compression work, and you can set it to FTP to DG as part of the render/project settings on a per file bases, so you can set-up and render and in the morning it will be up on the FTP site.

Note: They want a full :30 spot with picture. They don't want to see a fade at the top or end of your spot, (which is BS in my book if, as an editor you want to clean the viewers palette by dipping to back at the end). So you need to alert them if you're using a fade at the top and bottom of the spot.

One problem with the Avid is the way it handles your out point, by going inside the out point frame. But once you set-up a DG compliant Sequence you can use it to drop all your spots into.

Good luck!

 PS Glenn - We charge our clients $175US an hour for DG fast channel postings. Limited distribution may be cheaper on BetaSP tapes (we charge $40US a dub). So with shipping, if they go over 4 dubs, DG is cheaper for them. Our clients pay for the DG access, we don't. We generally end up charging .5 to 1 hr per spot to format/post deal with their process.

 Thanks for the info Fazz!

Are you able to encode to the 720 x 512 MPEG-2 from Main Concept and Sorenson pro 5? prior to this oddesy, I was under the impression that MPEG-2 was 720 x 480.. but that is not what DG is looking for...

We've been using Cleaner XL on the PC for quite some time, with good results..but have been unable to get a 4:2:2 / 720 x 512 'proper' encode that the Texas dropbox will accept. even tho the Cleaner XL encoder is set to 4:2:2, the encoded file is immediately kicked out of the cert. process as 4:2:0 and not 720 x 512... After over a week of back and forth with them, we purchased the Telestream Episode Pro based on their recommendations.. but have yet to get an encode that they can accept.

I've noticed that exporting out of MC as Animation compressed, 720 x 486 29.97, when inspecting the file in quicktime player, the movie properties say it is 27.6 fps but plays fine.. possibly where our issues lie? the MPEG - 2 played back in VLC Player looks to my eyes like a good encode, but we're told from the texas office that there are 'horizontal tiling issues', as well as bizarre length descrepencies that I still can't explain. I'm going to update our QT on the system from 7.2 to 7.3.1 tomorrow, so while I don't think this will solve my issue, I'm willing to practice whatever dark arts it takes to get to the bottom of this problem.

Glenn

 I see from your profile you're in San Diego. Why are you trying to do 720x512 And yes? MPEG2 spec for SD is 720x480, and that's fine for DG. (Mpeg has to be able to be divided by 16) Don't waste your time on rendering a QT Animation file, a QT Ref file is much faster, providing your encoder will accept it. Otherwise, yes an Animation file. If you're hell bent on doing a 720x512 file, them set Sorensen/Your Enocder for "unconstrained proportions" and it should let you do that. I'm at a lost for your frame rate issues. (edit: another post was about 24p, not this one)

Watch out for the latest QT, we've had mismatches before with Avid/Sorenson and QuickTime and a lot of folks had to roll back their QT version. There's some posts about this on the boards.

I used to love CleanerXL, but I thought it was orphaned by AutoCad years ago and there hasn't been anything new in years, hence Sorenson taking over in this space.

 PS: How can they gig you on 4:2:0 color space?? That's what MiniDV/DVCAM is. Personally I hate MiniDV and I'm a big DVCPRO50 4:2:2 fan, but BetaSP was something like 3:1:1 and before that we distributed a zillion spots to a ton of TV stations on 1". They have to except 4:2:0, but your other issue needs to be addressed. 

 Maybe you're grandfathered in as a prior customer, so you aren't required to give them 720 x 512 files.. but those dimensions are what they are telling us we must provide, or the file is kicked out of the certification process.. our Cleaner XL 1.5 claims to be able to do 4:2:2, as well as extremely high mpeg encodes (I can set it to create a 25mbit file).. but the 720x512, as well as the chroma complaints prompted us to buy the new encoder..

For now, we're sending our files to the LA office (not automated) They don't seem to have any problems with them..

thanks for your support.. it's been a difficult few weeks :)

Glenn

 720x512 makes no sense for NTSC. We're posting some spots in a few days, so we'll see what's up. XL 1.5 sounds like the ticket for doing this, save your custom preset once you get it down to a science, as it's often hit or miss. 

I am thinking of using DGFastChannel as well to deliver spots ... thanks for the help on the technical specifics.

Is there a rule of thumb when it makes sense to use DG vs. just sending a tape?  How do they charge for the service.  When you talk to them - it is not very clear, they make it seem they work for all 'jobs' but when should you use them and when should you use physical delivery?  What is teh pricing model?

I use DG almost every day. If you give them a call they can fax you their price list. Basically, the cost goes up the faster you need the spot turned.

For us, the reason to use DG is when we have many spots (Anything over a minute and the encode/upload time starts to erode the cost savings) to deliver either quickly or to a great many markets. The cost is almost the same to DG or to ship, the big difference being the time/cost savings for our office personnel. The time it takes to encode and upload a spot is easier to bill (and at a higher rate) than the time it takes to ship a package.

Once you deliver three good encodes (DG encodes to an MPEG2 Program file), you will be certified to use their drop box. They do monitor your spots and bounce them if something isn't right (Trust me, I've bounced a few).

After my settings were approved, I saved them in Sorenson and it's a simple matter to send to Sorenson with those settings and encode then upload to DG.

Thanks BLKDOG, what are your Sorenson settings, and how did you export out of Avid?

Fish

Out of Avid as a QT Ref, MPEG 2 Program stream in Sorenson. Digi will give you a list of specs and you will have to pass their QA test a couple of times before they certify you to upload to their servers.

Try Telestream Episode. It has a preset for DGFC and works great. You can even set it up to do the conversion and uploads in batches. It is not cheap, but it makes the process hassle free.

I have  settings that worked with files captured with a Pipeline at IMX 50 then using Episode to flip for DG, then  Sent to Dropbox via Fetch.  This app would not allow me to attatch it.  If you would like, send me an email and I can send you the settings file.

aaron@tmtel.com

Okay. Well. Trying to do the same thing. From avid to sorenson 5 to DG Dropbox.

People seem to get real vague when you ask them for specifics on how exactly to set up the encode.

So issue #1. How do you get sorenson to do the proper pad to get the additional lines of black ON TOP of active picture to get to DGs 720x512 SD resolution. The extra black should just be on top. NOT a letterbox.

Issue #2. DG has a very narrow dynamic range for audio. How are folks getting Sorenson to compress the volume of their spots with the 3db range DG seems to want (low to peek). What DB level do they need to average?

Issue #3 Black level. Should Sorenson be fed an RGB or 601 quicktime in the Avid codec? Do any further adjustments need to be made to make sure DG gets the black level they want?

Chris Magid

RTVF