Latest post Mon, Sep 8 2008 12:55 AM by OliverPeters. 20 replies.
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  • Wed, Apr 16 2008 9:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Red/Avid Workflow - Interesting read

    Kevin Klimek:

    What would be nice, is that instead of working with Apple, companies with new technologies would WANT to work exclusively with Avid.  Panasonic's P2 development was much tighter with Apple at first, too.

    Avid needs to get these cutting edge companies to partner with THEM rather than other companies.


     

    Actually, once I find the money for R&D, I'm starting my own camera project and that exactly what's going to happen Big Smile. My primary choices for companies to work with would be Avid, DVS, and Baselight. It's just that none of the systems would be able to handle the resolution of camera in their current state Wink.

    Dell XPS 8300 - 3.4GHz Quad-Core with Hyper Threading (i7-2600) - 8GB RAM - 1 TB hard drive - ATI Radeon HD 5670 - Windows 7 Ultimate - Sound Blaster X... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:39 PM In reply to

    • Glans
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    Re: Red/Avid Workflow - Interesting read

     I have no doubt that when the workflow is equally supported on an Avid system, no one will care going FCP when working with Red r3d files.

    The golden thing would be if Red could come up with a way to proxy r3d files into a project and have a more extensive RAW color correction for it. That way you could shoot - edit directly (without any transcodes) and finish of with a 4K render! No such thing as online/offline because it's one and the same.

    Right now, I've almost lost a big job opportunity because I edit Avid. I need to learn FCP within the next month, because the posthouse and producer doesn't accept Avid as my editing software... Even if it's all about offline editing.

    From red and avid people I always hear that "support will be here soon", "the sdk is out, soon there will be a solution".
    Sorry but, when is the freakin "soon"? Is it so hard to get a quicktime codec for windows? is it so hard to get a RedCine that isn't a Beta? Isn't this more important then doing more camera firmware builds now that 16 is out?

    And why isn't there any news from Avid? Why can't i hear them talkinga bout Red and giving us some date for supporting the system?

    I seriously think that if this turns out to be the next "720/25p" support and take as long as that to get into Avid, then Avid has already lost a battle.

    The camera is far from vaporware now, it's being used in the industry, on the top floor as well as lower. There needs to be a colaboration right now, not later.
    Even Adobe Premiere is ahead of Avid...   why not show the world that Avid is the LEADING editing way? Not the "oh, that software that doesn't support what everyone else support".

    The longer it takes, the more will buy FCP licences and stick with it...  loosing customers is already happening.

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    64 bit, GPU acceleration, better AMA, better exports with GPU acceleration, better grading with true secondary and lift gamma gain, higher resolutions (4K, 5K etc.) and a video stream online (for directors being far away on the phone or skype).

    That would blow ANY competition away and it will be future-proof MC for a long time.

  • Sun, Sep 7 2008 7:44 PM In reply to

    • bakalaj
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    Re: Red/Avid Workflow - Interesting read

    Exactly! Where are AVID's announcements? The stupid policy of not announcing anything until it's a done deal is really not working for us. We need to plan, it's our business, we have to *know* what's coming down the pipeline and WHEN. I am just like many other guys; I'd prefer sticking to the more expensive Avid (*&%^) than switching to the cheaper FCP that gives me more IOs via inexpensive third party product. But AVID's silence and continuous lack of openness and communication to its very loyal customer base is making this more difficult, particularly in the light of more and more clients using FCP and wanting to go that way.

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  • Sun, Sep 7 2008 8:32 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: Red/Avid Workflow - Interesting read

    You need to understand a few things.

    1. Under current corporate tax laws, a public company cannot make announcements about features that are not currently (or soon going to be) an actual product. This differs from RED, which is privately held, and can promote any new features or products they like without being pinned to any exact schedule. For example - Scarlet, Epic, and Red Ray. Plus the ever-evolving codec. This is all just bait. It's real when you see deliveries.

    2. SDK or not, so far most of the plug-in work to support files is being done by RED for these companies. That is true in the case of Apple and Adobe. RED and Assimilate have been working together, as RedCine comes from Assimilate, but RedAlert comes from RED. That's why they don't look or work the same. Not sure about Quantel, IRIDAS or Cineform, who have essentially developed their own integration based on existing versions of RedCode. The SDK only guarantees that a company can now legally develop a hook to the raw files without violating RED's agreements with Apple and Assimilate prior to this.

    3. Camera raw workflow is not a panacea. Adding control to get access to the raw data only gives you minimal color correction controls. Most of the grade is actually being done to the file after the raw processing. Take a look at how photo apps like Aperture 2 deal with raw files. The majority of the adjustment tools are the same with JPEGs and TIFFs as they are with raw files. Raw control lets you adjust exposure and debayering and to some extend colorspace. So having direct access to raw files isn't a huge benefit.

    4. Take a look at cutting with QT refs in FCP or the Adobe workflow. Trust me, you are not going to want to edit this way on a large project. So for the time being, the only logical route is still an offline/online workflow. As such, you're going to end up rendering files anyway. In that case, there's a current workflow in place with Avid that is essentially the same as with FCP. The only extra step is a fast import from DNxHD in QT to DNxHD as Avid media.

    - Oliver

     

  • Sun, Sep 7 2008 10:38 PM In reply to

    • boltown
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    Re: Red/Avid Workflow - Interesting read

    I understand Kevin, but I totally agree with Oliver, RAW editing is good for marketing, not for editing.
    I've tried the cineform raw editing workflow of SI2k material on an 8 core MacPro FCP, and ended rendering everithing to prores, so even though it would be great to edit directly the raw files I think today is not the best choise.
    My 2 cents.Geeked

     

     

     

     

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  • Mon, Sep 8 2008 12:55 AM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: Red/Avid Workflow - Interesting read

    QT ref-based editing has generally been suggested by RED as a quick way to check files on set. They don't really recommend it to do actual editing, but they don't discourage it either. Apple's recommended workflow is import through Log and Transfer, which transcodes to ProRes. Except that doesn't work a lot of the time or results in corrupted files. So reliable editing today with RED One files is to transcode using another app into an editable format and then import and edit that media in Avid or FCP or another NLE of your choice.

    Unfortunately, it seems that what you are fighting is a client who has bought into the hype and probably not really willing to deal with the realities of the current workflows. Go onto RedUser and search the posts. See how many times the phrase "editing nightmare" comes up and you'll see. These are folks are trying to use the reference path, because it is quick and cheap and now they are suffering through that decision. It's life on the bleeding edge.

    Post with RED files can be very straightforward and there is still plenty of time for all sorts of companies to offer innovative solutions. Avid might seem slow to respond, but remember that RED keeps changing things, so Avid might be waiting until things are settled down a bit more. Today there are painful ways to post RED files and easy ways to post RED files. Many folks opt for the former until they learn through experience.

    - Oliver

     

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