yes, but the fact is that what it is said is wrong!
no matter when it was written.
All other shooting modes will not work,  just some, it's something that missinform.
boltown

Still no news...  and yet again we had to cut our last HDV project on FCP...  does anyone else feel like they have been let down (at best)?

As we posted earlier this week it has been a big frustration using 720p with Avid. It is not that we wait for the full support. Even the 30fr. support that we have now is not reliable at all.
Since a few days now we capture with Edius, we transcode the clips into HDV1 and we import them to Avid to finish our project. We are hoping that Avid will come up soon with the full support. It has been a problem since the beginning, a year ago, and we have seen no improvements until today.
The other NLEs are already far ahead.
Is the time for a decision to make, stay with Avid or move on with different opions...
Avid seems not to care about this dilema that thousands of its clients are facing!
We are not stuborn, we are loosing money!!!
Panos

Panos, are you having to load each captured clip in Edius into the timeline in order to export or do you have a way of batch exporting from the bin? Are you on the Pro or Broadcast version?

I Capture the clips with the Mpeg2 capture function of Edius. I have the edius NX for HDV. The file is captured as an m2t with an extension that is not supported by Avid. So I use the procoder, I stitch the separate clips together, transcode them to HDV1 Transp. stream and then import them into Avid.
I know that transcoding HDV reduces the quality, but there is no other way to work this out for now.
To tell you the truth I don't say any difference on my descktop monitor.
All the compression errors are gone and the footage plays without problems in Avid.
Panos

Panos:

I Capture the clips with the Mpeg2 capture function of Edius. I have the edius NX for HDV. The file is captured as an m2t with an extension that is not supported by Avid. So I use the procoder, I stitch the separate clips together, transcode them to HDV1 Transp. stream and then import them into Avid. I know that transcoding HDV reduces the quality, but there is no other way to work this out for now. To tell you the truth I don't say any difference on my descktop monitor. All the compression errors are gone and the footage plays without problems in Avid. Panos

 

Hi Panos

I tried using Edius/Procoder in much the same way as you...  and it seems to work ok - but is very very time consuming and inefficient.  It also makes all my EDLs useless as in transcoding I lose the original TC.

The fact is this whole affair stinks and has certainly put me off AVID for good.  I originally saw my purchase of AVID systems as an investment in good quality editing hardware/software, but now I can see that it was a poor decision and a waste of money.  I will not be making the same mistake twice.

 

Tim

Yes, I know. But I will export it to tape and then work with it.
I have the same frustration as you. I will try to learn Edius and upgrade it to broadcast. I see that it is a nice program but... I am used to Avid. Is not the media management, this you can do well with Canopus, Adobe or whatever else if you are down to earth. What keeps me with Avid, is this very "natural" and "Rasional" editing interface that it has.
Maybe I am getting old for extreme changes, but lets see, where is it going to go?.. It might come up soon with something good or we might move to the modern Liquid.
Anyway, the language of promotion is always missleading, but in the case of Avid the promotion for HDV was too misleading!
Panos

Thanks for the info, Panos. I run Edius and Liquid as well as various Avid apps. The problem with transcoding the native HDV1 files via ProCoder is that it will not be frame accurate in the same way as exporting from the Edius timeline. This makes for serious trouble if you're using offline/online workflow like us. Since you can't export from the bin using Edius, I prefer to use Liquid. You can capture native HDV, export from the rack (bin), manually enter TC and source reel in Avid (pain in the neck) then cut, decompose the finished sequence, export ALE from Avid into Liquid, conform the decomposed clips with the clip name intact within Liquid, then batch export 'Fused' native uncompressed 720p clips from Liquid or you can batch export Avid QT files in the appropriate flavour. These can then be batch imported into your Avid offline (decomposed) master clips and - voila - you have a conformed sequence in Avid. This is a painful work-around but it does actually work. With Edius, you'd have to import an EDL, lose the clip name, and go via the Canopus HQ codec, which means both cutting in/conforming by eye and another stage of compression. Liquid's advantage here is the ability to batch export from the bin, to import ALE and to re-capture/conform direct to HDV without the need for an intermediate codec. Edius can only capture native MPEG on the fly, not frame accurate re-captures, for which it uses the Canopus HQ codec.

Tim - try Liquid. It'll get you around your TC issue (see above).

Liquid always looks like a toy to me. And anyhow I wouldn't buy anything from Avid until they show a more serious and clear direction.

Amitzi:

Liquid always looks like a toy to me. And anyhow I wouldn't buy anything from Avid until they show a more serious and clear direction.

I second that Amitzi - I think AVID are going to have to work hard if they are going to restore my faith in them...  In my business I cannot afford another fiasco like this.

Well, Liquid has been marketed as something of a toy since Pinnacle acquired it and certainly since the Avid acquisition. The fact remains that it is the software developed by FAST a few years ago, which was intended as a Media Composer rival and sold successfully for a great deal more than Xpress Pro. In fact, Avid may plaster the Liquid promotions with wedding video images but the software itself has many features you just don't get with Xpress Pro (and even MC) because of that higher-end legacy. No one ever took them out. I'd choose the interface over FCP any day. You get:

Secondary colour correction
uncompressed HD in 720p and 1080p
a proper set of decent scaling algorithms
background rendering

And the cheapest hardware I/O ('Pro BoB') is a good deal more sophisticated than the joke that is Mojo (analogue). You can buy other hardware boards all the way up to HD SDI I/O for a lot less than Adrenaline, even without the HD upgrade - which only gives you DNx only where Liquid Chrome HD gives you fully uncompressed. Unlike Avid traditional, all Liquid products (from software only to Chrome HD) use exactly the same software. You just pay the extra for the boards.

No, Liquid is not the holy grail (proprietary codecs, closed hardware upgrades and lack of plug-in support plus a very small and diminishing professional skill base) and yes I do understand everyone's reluctance to give even more cash to Avid when they've been let down really badly by the whole 720p fiasco but let's have some respect for the FAST boys in Munich! Also, it does provide one of the best work-arounds for MC and Xpress Pro users trying to work with HDV1 for very little extra money. Remember that it ingests 720p/25 50 and 60 natively. It also imports ALE and can conform frame-accurate native HDV1.

If you want to stick with Avid (and I mean AXPro/MC/Symph) and not turn to FCP, Liquid is your best companion software if you're on the PC. I've tried all sorts of work-arounds for getting HDV1 720p/25 into Xpress Pro (including Edius) and nothing is as quick and simple as Liquid - unless you have MCA, the HD board and the Convergent box, that is.

Liquid software only is £300. Compared to the inflated price of every other Avid product, it's a bargain even if you only ever use it as a capture/scaling/transcode utility for initial ingest and/or conforms.

In addtion to Post Repubic,
Sony use Fast/Liquid for Sony ES-3, Sony ES-7 (If You remember them) and Sony XPRI.

But will Liquid handle DVCPro HD in any of its forms? I didn't think it could.

Dave

It's February. We're nearly half way through that mythical Q5. Can we please get some sort of update? We're not going to have to wait until NAB to hear anything are we?

Is it going to be in 5.7 or are we going to have to wait til 6.0?

Don't hold your breath. Avid's development cycle is real slow.

If you want contact me privately for some healthy speculation...