Latest post Fri, Apr 19 2019 9:12 PM by jef. 6 replies.
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  • Wed, Apr 17 2019 7:03 AM

    • shayok
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    Correct timecodes for 29.97 project exported subtitles

    My question is somewhat related to http://community.avid.com/forums/t/196896.aspx. As we figured there, Avid is actually displaying my 29.97 project as a 30 fps project, with the result that the length of the timeline is slightly shorter than what it should be. These are my settings: http://shayok.com/tmp/frame-rate.png

    The export QT reference, though, has the correct length. The only real problem I'm facing is that the exported subtitles have slightly incorrect timecodes. 

    Is there a solution for this? How do I make Avid display 29.97 timecodes?

    Avid MC 8.5.3, macOS Mojave, MacBook Pro, 16 GB ram, Intel 2.7 GHz i7 quad core, Graphics cards: Radeon Pro 455 2048 MB, Intel HD Graphics 530 1536 MB [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 17 2019 2:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Correct timecodes for 29.97 project exported subtitles

    I see from your screenshot that you in non-drop frame (:)   Try changing the starting timecode to drop-frame (;) in the the Sequence Report.

    MC 2018.4 with Symphony, Matrox MX02 Mini Max, Win 7 Pro, HP Z800 2x6-Core 3.2Ghz Xeon, 48GB ram, Quadro K4200, SanDisk Extreme 240GB SSD as system drive... [view my complete system specs]

    I have a fantastic editing assistant.  He stays by my side when I edit...doesn't talk too much...and thinks I'm a genius!    Check him out here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQVkYaaPO6g

  • Wed, Apr 17 2019 2:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Correct timecodes for 29.97 project exported subtitles

    FYI - Non-drop frame timecode is counting 3000 frames per 100 seconds instead of 2997 per 100 seconds using drop-frame code, which is what 29.97 was intended to do.   It's a relic from old broadcast TV.   Yoiu won't notice a difference with a 30-second commercial, but a one-hour program using non-drop frame timecode is about 4 seconds shorter.  

    As standard practice, I always work in non-drop frame.

    MC 2018.4 with Symphony, Matrox MX02 Mini Max, Win 7 Pro, HP Z800 2x6-Core 3.2Ghz Xeon, 48GB ram, Quadro K4200, SanDisk Extreme 240GB SSD as system drive... [view my complete system specs]

    I have a fantastic editing assistant.  He stays by my side when I edit...doesn't talk too much...and thinks I'm a genius!    Check him out here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQVkYaaPO6g

  • Fri, Apr 19 2019 1:05 PM In reply to

    • shayok
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    Re: Correct timecodes for 29.97 project exported subtitles

    Thanks Terry so much for the explanation!

    Avid MC 8.5.3, macOS Mojave, MacBook Pro, 16 GB ram, Intel 2.7 GHz i7 quad core, Graphics cards: Radeon Pro 455 2048 MB, Intel HD Graphics 530 1536 MB [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 19 2019 3:43 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
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    Re: Correct timecodes for 29.97 project exported subtitles

    I would slightly disagree with Terry's choice of the word "relic" for Drop Frame.

    It was invented for a very good reason - to allow the timecode of a show to reflect real time!

    With drop frame if you start your show at 01;00;00;00 and need to deliver it as a 58 minute duration, your last image will be at 01;57;59;29.  You can see that at any point in time during editing.  It can be seen by everyone else in the post chain.  It is a built in clock.  That is why it is still required today in the broadcast realm.

    Terry is correct that for short form - commercials particularly - NDF is common.  The broadcast world is generally fine with that.

    One thing to understand(And this may be obvious to some, but has confused many):  NDF and DF are just counting systems.  Your show always has the same total number of frames no matter whether you are counting it with NDF or DF systems.  You can change back and forth and never change the real time of the show or it's content.

    It should also be stated that any good NLE will handle the mixture of NDF and DF sources with no issues.  In fact, most of them will do any math based on raw number of frames rather than trying to do math with NDF or DF number strings.

    The word relic can be defined as "an object, custom, or belief that has survived from an earlier time but is now outmoded".

    DF is not going to go away as long as we have fractional frame and field rates (29.97 / 59.94).

    Ok, render done.  Back to work.  Big Smile

    Jef

     

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.10.0 but playing w 2018.11| OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Fri, Apr 19 2019 6:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Correct timecodes for 29.97 project exported subtitles

    jef:

    I would slightly disagree with Terry's choice of the word "relic" for Drop Frame.

    It was invented for a very good reason - to allow the timecode of a show to reflect real time!

     

    "Legacy" would probably have been a better choice of words.  Historically, drop-frame timecode was devised when color NTSC television was invented, to maintain backwards compatibility with black & white TV's.

     

    jef:

    The word relic can be defined as "an object, custom, or belief that has survived from an earlier time but is now outmoded".

    DF is not going to go away as long as we have fractional frame and field rates (29.97 / 59.94).

    At this point in the development of television, 29.97 can be abandoned in favor of true 30fps, although I admit it would take a lot of $$$ and effort to get everyone to abandon this "relic" from TV's olden days and adopt a new standard.  (Oops, I said it again.  Wink )

     

    MC 2018.4 with Symphony, Matrox MX02 Mini Max, Win 7 Pro, HP Z800 2x6-Core 3.2Ghz Xeon, 48GB ram, Quadro K4200, SanDisk Extreme 240GB SSD as system drive... [view my complete system specs]

    I have a fantastic editing assistant.  He stays by my side when I edit...doesn't talk too much...and thinks I'm a genius!    Check him out here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQVkYaaPO6g

  • Fri, Apr 19 2019 9:12 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
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    Re: Correct timecodes for 29.97 project exported subtitles

    Agreed.  But think about the issues of integrating 29.97 into 30!! People tend to ignore the fact that we have around 50 years of material to consider.

    The other thing is 23.976 vs 24.

    And our insistence on packaging either of those in the 29.97 standard!

    As long as there is money to be made on existing shows, I doubt "old" ways will dissapear.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.10.0 but playing w 2018.11| OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

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