Latest post Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:28 AM by Digimik. 4 replies.
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  • Mon, Apr 6 2015 3:07 PM

    • Digimik
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    • Joined on Mon, Apr 6 2015
    • Posts 10
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    MultiCam Footage, H.264 to DNxHD settings, Source Files, AMA and Importing

    Hi Everyone. In the midst of a few projects, I've decided to migrate from SONY Vegas 13 to MC 8.3. [GULP!] I do like a lot of features in Vegas but I'm needing to be more compatible and among other things, the clip grouping and timeline creation in MC, I think will be a better workflow with these longer projects with mass footage I'm getting into. I think it will also be easier to find assist. editors! 

    I've been learning, watching and reading a TON but I have some questions I'm just not finding clear answers about. Here is what is going on:

    Making single files of multi-footage from three cameras to bring into MC from Vegas

    I currently have footage from 3 cameras, synced manually on the Vegas timeline.  The main cam is a Canon 70D and footage is (H.264/23.976/Progressive/1920x1080x12). The other footage is a GoPRo and an older Canon with SD size. The Vegas timeline is rat's nest of start/stops with many different files lined up. (I saw that I could use PluralEyes for AVID but I'd rather not hassle with that right now since my footage is synced on my Vegas timeline.)

    I had thought I should simply render all this as three separate files (each w vid/aud) that all start from zero. Upon completion, there would then be only three files/renders (one from each camera) and all the same length and ready to drop into MC and edit. But I didn't want to import them into MC, but rather use the AMA linking. I think this is the easiest way to migrate over for now. Am I thinking right? If not, please teach me! :)

    DNxHD Settings

    If I am thinking right, what do I set my renderings to for DNxHD?
    I currently did a render w these settings>DNxHD 115/8-bit/23.976/Progressive/1920x1080/ 

    Are those DNxHD settings "overkill" for my source footage?
    Could I get away with a lower DNxHD setting for the older Canon? 

    My eventual master playback medium will primarily be streaming online or played from their laptops. Maybe some broadcast from like Netflix someday.

    Here are my questions:

     

    1. I don't understand what to do about progressive/upper/lower field?

    2. AMA linking basically uses a kind of proxy right? But upon rendering, uses the true source footage/files? Why use import at all and not use AMA Linking all the time? Is there a benefit?

    3. In my reading, it seems like people are importing footage into MC using DNxHD36. Or are they making some sort of AMA files and then relinking later??? I'm missing something. 

    4. Or are they actually using the DNxHD36 as the source footage but w AMA? If so, are those inferior settings and upon rendering, won't they be a lesser quality? Or does import do some sort of proxy as well?

    5. I'm confused and concerned about all the frame rate issues. From my 23.976, can I convert up to a 30fr or higher? What about if I shot at 60fr? Can I convert down to 24fr? There are SOOOO many frame rates it's VERY confusing and I wonder if I'm losing something. 

    6. If I get lower quality footage, should I just use a lower DNxHD like 36? 

    THANKS A TON FOR ANY HELP!! ~ Michael

    ... 

     

    Also, to help others, I found these great resources > 

     

    http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/avid_codec_guide.html 

    http://www.jasonmyres.com/2012/07/transcoding-h-264-to-dnxhd-for-fast-import-in-media-composer-6/

     

  • Mon, Apr 6 2015 4:50 PM In reply to

    • smrpix
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Sep 5 2012
    • Posts 1,316
    • Points 16,190

    Re: MultiCam Footage, H.264 to DNxHD settings, Source Files, AMA and Importing

    Start by specifying the raster size, frame rate and field order of each of your cameras.  You've only told us about the 70D.  DNxHD 115 is fine for the 70D.

    AMA is always the preferred ingest method as it links to the least-adulterated source.

    Your other questions are directly related to your choice of project based on your highest-quality needs, and depend on the power of your system.

  • Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:32 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Roma - Italy
    • Posts 5,196
    • Points 61,055

    Re: MultiCam Footage, H.264 to DNxHD settings, Source Files, AMA and Importing

    Digimik:
    I saw that I could use PluralEyes for AVID but I'd rather not hassle with that right now since my footage is synced on my Vegas timeline.

    Do not bother PluralEyes is not as good as hand labour.

    Digimik:

    I currently did a render w these settings>DNxHD 115/8-bit/23.976/Progressive/1920x1080/ 

    Are those DNxHD settings "overkill" for my source footage?

    I assume that You refer to the way You export from Vegas, and the answer is no, it's not overkill for 1080 footage

    Digimik:

    Could I get away with a lower DNxHD setting for the older Canon? 

    Yes You could

    Digimik:
    1. I don't understand what to do about progressive/upper/lower field?

    HD is upper filed

    Digimik:
    2. AMA linking basically uses a kind of proxy right? But upon rendering, uses the true source footage/files? Why use import at all and not use AMA Linking all the time? Is there a benefit?

    AMA links to the original source files, upon rendering Avid generates render files according to the media creation and render settings. AMA linking to edit off the AMA linked clips may be too taxing for Your CPU, depending on the source files codec, h.264 and GoPro being among the heavy to handle stuff. AMA link and transcode/consolidate is faster than straight import.

    Digimik:
    3. In my reading, it seems like people are importing footage into MC using DNxHD36. Or are they making some sort of AMA files and then relinking later??? I'm missing something.

    As for import VS AMA see above, be aware that DNxHD 36 is an offline resolution, not feasible for a broadcast delivery, You may use it for editing and will need to online to deliver the master.

    Digimik:
    4. Or are they actually using the DNxHD36 as the source footage but w AMA? If so, are those inferior settings and upon rendering, won't they be a lesser quality? Or does import do some sort of proxy as well?

    As said, AMA will link to the original footage, no proxy involved (unless You link to camera generated proxies, but this is another workflow). What do You mean by rendering? In Avid You'll only render non realtime effects; if You mean exporting Your finished work please specify.

    Digimik:
    5. I'm confused and concerned about all the frame rate issues. From my 23.976, can I convert up to a 30fr or higher? What about if I shot at 60fr? Can I convert down to 24fr? There are SOOOO many frame rates it's VERY confusing and I wonder if I'm losing something.

    You can convert from any frame rate to any frame rate, but if Yuo do it with software You may very well get random weird frames and artifacts, You better shoot like You have to deliver; there's nothing to loose choosing one frame rate over another, it all depends on the final delivery format, and shooting progressive or at 24 fps doesn't give You that film look!

    Digimik:
    6. If I get lower quality footage, should I just use a lower DNxHD like 36?

    It again depends on the delivery format, but DNxHD 36 is really an offline resolution to save on hard drive estate, with finishing to an higher quality resolution for final delivery to broadcasters, and if You want Your master to be as good quality as it could be, and longer lasting.

    Digimik:
    THANKS A TON FOR ANY HELP!! ~ Michael
    ;-)

    MC 2018.2, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Tue, Apr 7 2015 2:12 AM In reply to

    • Digimik
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Apr 6 2015
    • Posts 10
    • Points 80

    Re: MultiCam Footage, H.264 to DNxHD settings, Source Files, AMA and Importing

    SMRPIX > Thanks for your helpful and succinct answers. You sort of wrapped up the gist of it. Regarding highest quality needs: For different projects, might we really need to render different kinds of files of the same video? And thereby, using a great quality source file is the key right? I'm a bit of a packrat with files and I don't have to have the BEST file source or codec but I at least want the best I CAN get and keep it that way so that along the way, if the end result needs change, I am still OK. But again, I think your answers hinted I was in the right direction. THANKS AGAIN! ~ Michael

     

  • Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:28 AM In reply to

    • Digimik
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Apr 6 2015
    • Posts 10
    • Points 80

    Re: MultiCam Footage, H.264 to DNxHD settings, Source Files, AMA and Importing

    LUCA!! WOW! These were epic answers and VERY helpful. I REALLY appreciate your time. It took me until now to properly write back. A few replies:

    PROGRESSIVE
    So is it OK if I rendered the 70D in progressive rather than upper? It seemed that the H264 said progressive. How big of a deal is the difference and when will you really see it? Since we edit on computer screens, are these things you really can't see unless you watch a DVD on a TV? But is that changing now anyway because of tubes going away. 

    AMA/TRANSCODE

    I think I get this well enough for now. With your comment about the DNxHD36 for offline - it clued me in that there really are two ways to edit. 

    1) Transcode which means that you "import" the source footage into your project but using with a lower res format so your machine will run quicker. When you are ready to export, MC will use the orginal source footage. (NOTE: I said render in the original post as that was the term for export in Vegas.) 

    2) AMA Linking which is like a "shortcut" to the actual source footage. 

    . . .

    So do you never really bring in the actual source footage (dumped from the DSLR camera SIMM, onto the timeline in MC? Is it all either a transcode or an AMA? 

    And with transcoding, when you export the final, can you use the source footage OR choose to just use the transcoded footage assuming it's in a hi-quality format you want?

    After all that, is best just to batch convert all your footage into some other codec before you ever even open a project? In Vegas, you can just drag ANY format onto the timeline directly and edit away. Really fast. (I guess I'm spoiled and I need to start batch converting or something??)

    What does give me that film look? I thought it was just 24fr?? If I shot at 30fr, can I convert down and it will look like film or do I really need to shoot in it? And EXACTLY what settings? 

    Thanks again Luca for your valuable time. I'd buy you a beer or pay you a consulting fee! Thanks! ~ Michael

     

     

     

     

     

     

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