Latest post Thu, May 29 2014 5:57 AM by Tiger_XP. 195 replies.
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  • Tue, May 20 2014 7:50 PM In reply to

    Re: MC 8.0

    Dave Avid PM:
    The software industry (and not just Avid) is trying to change the way customers think about software and entitlements.  You purchase a product and you derive the value of the product while you use it.

    Dave,

    It's beyond doubt that these are changing times... That these changes are (to an extend) part of practical historical evolution and require everybody to adapt is also beyond a doubt.

    But I respectfully have to inform you that the information "you" supply on http://www.avid.com/US/products/media-composer/features is not in sync with the policy you are putting in place. It writes and I quote:

    The choice is yours

    Media Composer now gives you more choices in how you acquire and use the software.

    This is simply not true. If Avid wants to give us more choices then Avid can't limit us, within reasonable boundaries and taking into account how we have been able to upgrade the last decade, to a 7month period to decide now on the basis of faith to buy into support + upgrades even if the price is more then reasonable.

    Get me right. I understand that it's Avid's perogative to do as it sees fit and that this is not a democracy in which we have a say. But please bring this issue on the agenda of the next ACA meeting. Their opinion counts if I'm to believe everything I've read so far... (staying positive).

    From a practical perspective, what's the issue with asking $598,- for the support + upgrades after 2 years and $897,- after 3 years? I can't figure it out and have given it a lot of thought.

    IRONY MODE ON.

    Of course I can't predict how the market will react, but I believe it is safe to say that locking licenses was not a feature request.

    IRONY MODE OFF.

     

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own systems: 1x Z420 E5 1650 32GB memory quadro K2200, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 24GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

    A.V.I.D....... Another Version In Development

    www.mediaoffline.com

     

     

     

  • Wed, May 21 2014 2:58 AM In reply to

    • Hugh Moore
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Mar 29 2010
    • South Australia
    • Posts 44
    • Points 570

    Re: MC 8.0

    "From a practical perspective, what's the issue with asking $598,- for the support + upgrades after 2 years and $897,- after 3 years? I can't figure it out and have given it a lot of thought."

     

    Its a simple business decision, by having an annual service agreement, company has ongoing cashflow which they then can use to develop their products and keeps you locked in.

    Offering ability to backdate is not as cashflow beneficial as no incentive to pay annually.

    Im sure there are a lot of hobbyists who like me havent upgraded in recent times as no need MC 6.0 meets my needs now. However with 4K coming, I will take an upgrade before the end of the year and maybe this will mean I will do the same the following year which will be a win for me and Avid.

    Who knows after that, with 4K coming, the landscape will be completly different in two years, and maybe the pricing model may change.

     

    Hugh

     

     

     

    Hugh

     

    MC 8.3.1 MB: Gigabyte EX58-UD5 Video: Nvidia GeForce GTX750 RAM: 12 GB Windows 10 Boot Drive: SSD Monitors: Dual User: Hobbyist [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 21 2014 6:23 AM In reply to

    Re: MC 8.0

    Hugh Moore:
    Offering ability to backdate is not as cashflow beneficial as no incentive to pay annually.

    Hugh,

    The way I see this is that when you take away the users ability to upgrade and only offer him to buy a new license you encourage him/her to check all his/her options and compare performance and prices of other products. You take the out the loyalty principle that keeps the customer "on board" which at the same time is an essential ellement of a yearly support program or subscription model.

    Besides this.. Presenting this (again) in the way of: "Great news! You now have to pay us each year otherwise you can't upgrade ever again" is something that in this landscape of creative media professionals  requires, from my perspective, comprehensive motivation with practical indications what we can expect. Telling your customers at the same time, with the 20 years history.. predominantly the last 5 years in mind, that we have to believe Avid is going to deliver this time is not how I think this works.

     

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own systems: 1x Z420 E5 1650 32GB memory quadro K2200, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 24GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

    A.V.I.D....... Another Version In Development

    www.mediaoffline.com

     

     

     

  • Wed, May 21 2014 6:34 AM In reply to

    Re: MC 8.0

    Jeroen van Eekeres:
    Besides this.. Presenting this (again) in the way of: "Great news! You now have to pay us each year otherwise you can't upgrade ever again" is something that in this landscape of creative media professionals  requires, from my perspective, comprehensive motivation with practical indications what we can expect.

    Which is why many people are suggesting everyone wait and see how Avid handles upgrades for the rest of the year before deciding what to do, because the $299 upgrade price is good for the rest of 2014.  If they don't release an amount of new features and fixes by the end of the year that makes it feel like you'd get $299 worth out of them, then you can make a more informed decision about how much of a gamble you're willing to take.

    There's no reason to upgrade right now, when you don't get anything besides a new licensing model, and before there's any evidence of how often future upgrades/fixes will come.

    Media Composer 2022.12 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, May 21 2014 7:15 AM In reply to

    • YOP
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 172
    • Points 2,415

    Re: MC 8.0

    Pheral:

    YOP:
    I think I deserve better than an ultimatum every year.

    What ultimatum?  Nobody is charging your credit card without your permission.  At least if you choose not to upgrade, your software won't stop working unlike another editing platform I can think of.  I don't consider Avid doing us, or not doing us, a favor.  I recognize that they are a business trying their best to find a middle road that can work for us and at the same time work for them in a tech world that is moving mind-bogglingly fast.

    As Dom notes above, the change in licensing model will exert considerable presssure on Avid to deliver on updates and bug fixes, or else people will vote with their feet.

    I said it before and I'll say it again. If by the end of this year I wont pay the $299 my ,license/Dongle is going to be freeze! It's true nobody will charge my credit card if I don't want to, but please, I ask you to stop spreading the smoke.. You well know that an editing system can't freeze for years and still be relevant for the new formats, it's not a car or a toaster.
    If it walk like a duck and sound like a duck, It's a duck!

    As for the $299 price, it's true, it's not a lot of money especially compare to previous upgrades, but you need to know 2 things, 1.in previous upgrades I recieved because of Symphony, BCC, Avid FX, Sorenson Squeeze, and Avid DVD. All of them full versions not lite. Now as I understand, Avid DVD and Avid FX will no longer supported and BCC and Sorenson Squeeze will come only in Lite version which I don't know what it means yet. so the price is cheaper because we get less.
    2. I have never paid 500$-600$ for an upgrade. I usually waited to see what's in it and how many serious bugs in it before I upgraded, many times I skipped upgrades and recived a better price for 2 upgrades in the price of one like I did when I upgraded from 6.X to 7.0 for only $249 exactly a year ago.

    Avid Media Composer 2022.7 + Symphony Option, HP Z840- System Disk- ZTurbo 500GB ssd, CPU- 2X E5-2699V3 18 Cores (Total 72 Threads cores), RAM- 128GB ECC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 21 2014 7:24 AM In reply to

    Re: MC 8.0

    YOP:
    1.in previous upgrades I recieved because of Symphony, BCC, Avid FX, Sorenson Squeeze, and Avid DVD.

    All of those programs will still work if you decide to upgrade to MC 8.

    YOP:
    Now as I understand, Avid DVD and Avid FX will no longer supported

    The version of Avid DVD that you have now will still work.  Avid FX is no longer being developed, but Boris Red is, and it's the same thing.

     

    Media Composer 2022.12 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, May 21 2014 7:36 AM In reply to

    • YOP
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 172
    • Points 2,415

    Re: MC 8.0

    camoscato:

    YOP:
    1.in previous upgrades I recieved because of Symphony, BCC, Avid FX, Sorenson Squeeze, and Avid DVD.

    All of those programs will still work if you decide to upgrade to MC 8.

    YOP:
    Now as I understand, Avid DVD and Avid FX will no longer supported

    The version of Avid DVD that you have now will still work.  Avid FX is no longer being developed, but Boris Red is, and it's the same thing.

     

    I know that all those 3rd party software will work with M.C 8. That is not my point. I said that in previous upgrades we were asked to pay more then $299 because we recieved upgrades for the 3rd party softwares as well. Now we don't. So the $299 is not a special price it is the price of the M.C software only.

    Avid Media Composer 2022.7 + Symphony Option, HP Z840- System Disk- ZTurbo 500GB ssd, CPU- 2X E5-2699V3 18 Cores (Total 72 Threads cores), RAM- 128GB ECC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 21 2014 7:58 AM In reply to

    • Rinze Schuurman
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    • Posts 438
    • Points 5,570

    Re: MC 8.0

    Now that Avid went to subscription model and aren't legally bound to produce their updates within the quarter they are announcing it, I would like to know which particular improvements/features/bugfixes they planning to release in 2014 for MC8. 

    "Software bugs are impossible to detect by anybody except the end user"

  • Wed, May 21 2014 8:02 AM In reply to

    Re: MC 8.0

    YOP:
    I said that in previous upgrades we were asked to pay more then $299 because we recieved upgrades for the 3rd party softwares as well. Now we don't. So the $299 is not a special price it is the price of the M.C software only.

    Yes, but doesn't that make sense?  They're not charging us for stuff that's no longer included.  I guess I don't understand your complaint.

    Even if they were going to keep the third party software as part of the deal, there are two problems I can see:

    1. The BCC 9 upgrade is $599, the Boris RED (aka Avid FX) upgrade is $295, and the Sorensen Squeeze upgrade is $499 for the Pro version.  That's $1300 that somebody's going to have to pay - either the users of MC, or Avid, or Boris and Sorensen.  Who do you think is going to want to pay it, and how much do you think they'll think is fair?

    I get the feeling if the third party deal up to now had been a good one for Avid, Boris, and Sorensen, it would still be ongoing.  Obviously one, two, or all three of them aren't happy with what they're getting, which means in order to make them happy and also keep the third party package intact, MC users would have to shell out more for MC, which has always proved unpopular.  

    Instead, Avid says they're going to just sell MC, and if you want Boris and Sorensen products, you can pay Boris and Sorensen for them, and also direct any complaints about how much they cost to Boris and Sorensen.

    2. If we're going to get any benefit out of the new licensing program, Avid's going to have to put out a lot of upgrades and fixes during the year to convince us all we're going to get our $299 worth.  Fair enough; they control MC development, so they're solely responsible for how they perform

    They don't control Boris and Sorensen, though.  What if MC's yearly cost was $599 and it included BCC, RED, and Squeeze?  Cool, right?  But wait!  What if out of BCC, RED, and Squeeze only one of them releases a big upgrade in 2015?  Do I still have to pay the full $599 to keep my MC perpetual license active?  That's not fair!

    If you're Avid and you're going to start making people pay yearly for something, you better make sure they get a lot of value during that year.  And since they can't control how much value Boris and Sorensen offer in a given year, it makes sense that they've cut them loose.

    Media Composer 2022.12 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, May 21 2014 8:18 AM In reply to

    • YOP
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 172
    • Points 2,415

    Re: MC 8.0

    camoscato:

    YOP:
    I said that in previous upgrades we were asked to pay more then $299 because we recieved upgrades for the 3rd party softwares as well. Now we don't. So the $299 is not a special price it is the price of the M.C software only.

    Yes, but doesn't that make sense?  They're not charging us for stuff that's no longer included.  I guess I don't understand your complaint.

    Yes you didn't understand me. I was only talking about those here who said that last upgrades used to be about $600 and now it's very cheap only $299. All I said it's not a special price for this new deal it's cheaper beacause it contain much less, that's all.
    I have no problem with Avid cutting off those 3rd party softwares.

    Avid Media Composer 2022.7 + Symphony Option, HP Z840- System Disk- ZTurbo 500GB ssd, CPU- 2X E5-2699V3 18 Cores (Total 72 Threads cores), RAM- 128GB ECC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 21 2014 8:32 AM In reply to

    Re: MC 8.0

    Rinze Schuurman:
    Now that Avid went to subscription model and aren't legally bound to produce their updates within the quarter they are announcing it, I would like to know which particular improvements/features/bugfixes they planning to release in 2014 for MC8.

    Exactly... the logical question that needs answering as a result of the new policy. If for whatever (legal) reason Avid can't answer in the public domain at this moment the whole idea fails IMHO.

    Thx Rinze

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own systems: 1x Z420 E5 1650 32GB memory quadro K2200, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 24GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

    A.V.I.D....... Another Version In Development

    www.mediaoffline.com

     

     

     

  • Wed, May 21 2014 8:45 AM In reply to

    Re: MC 8.0

    YOP:

    camoscato:

    YOP:
    I said that in previous upgrades we were asked to pay more then $299 because we recieved upgrades for the 3rd party softwares as well. Now we don't. So the $299 is not a special price it is the price of the M.C software only.

    Yes, but doesn't that make sense?  They're not charging us for stuff that's no longer included.  I guess I don't understand your complaint.

    Yes you didn't understand me. I was only talking about those here who said that last upgrades used to be about $600 and now it's very cheap only $299. All I said it's not a special price for this new deal it's cheaper beacause it contain much less, that's all.
    I have no problem with Avid cutting off those 3rd party softwares.

    Ah, ok, I understand now.  Thanks for explaining.  :)

     

    Media Composer 2022.12 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, May 21 2014 12:20 PM In reply to

    Re: MC 8.0

    Jeroen van Eekeres:

    Rinze Schuurman:
    Now that Avid went to subscription model and aren't legally bound to produce their updates within the quarter they are announcing it, I would like to know which particular improvements/features/bugfixes they planning to release in 2014 for MC8.

    Exactly... the logical question that needs answering as a result of the new policy. If for whatever (legal) reason Avid can't answer in the public domain at this moment the whole idea fails IMHO.

    Thx Rinze

    Yes, correct. Once everybody is on the program we can be more forth right in our development plans and we will.  The nice thing about this program is you do not have to wait for updates for a large release.  We have 3 development streams going for updates for this year right now.  Whether they all make it, I don't know.  I understand the reservation here.  Wait until the first release, then let me know what you think.  $299 will be well worth the upgrade price and do not discount the support part of this too.

  • Wed, May 21 2014 2:23 PM In reply to

    • Rinze Schuurman
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    • Posts 438
    • Points 5,570

    Re: MC 8.0

    Dave Avid PM:
    Once everybody is on the program we can be more forth right in our development plans and we will.

    Hi Dave

    Which everybody are you referring to here, the Avid co and resellers or the clients? For if you are waiting with new features and more information on developement till we all signed up I guess you'll be waiting till december 2014. I do like to see what I'm buying into, unless I would be playing blackjack at the casino. Wink

    "Software bugs are impossible to detect by anybody except the end user"

  • Wed, May 21 2014 4:16 PM In reply to

    Re: MC 8.0

    It's no secret that Avid has beta teams testing software and uses moderators as a final check before release.

    However due to NDAs etc it's not possible to announce the proposed new features until Avid make a formal announcement.

    However I'm sticking my neck out and saying that some of the current feature additions make a significant impact on my workflows that for me the $299 is a no brainer.

    Avid will have my money for sure and that's just in the first round of proposed feature additions.

    (and no don't even ask)

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET (Retired Early 2022)

     

    Still offering training and support for: QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more.

    Mainly delivered remotely via zoom but onsite possible.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk

     

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