Latest post Wed, Jul 31 2013 5:58 PM by leonisa. 26 replies.
Page 1 of 2 (27 items) 1 2 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Thu, Jul 25 2013 2:32 AM

    • leonisa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Apr 2 2006
    • Posts 18
    • Points 240

    Transitions between keyed footage

    Hi,

     

    I have seen the posts and sites ( like  http://blog.dvfanatics.com/2013/05/adding-effects-to-chroma-key-foreground.html )  about isolating keyed footage so that an effect is only applied to the keyed area and not the background layers. I have been trying to use this as a basis for transitions between keyed footage but no luck.

    I want to transition between keyed footage but when I do so the background comes back. Using the technique above I submastered the 3 layers and did a transition between 2 submasters that contained the 2 different effect stacks but this brought the background back and seems to un-do the matt key.

    1. Is there a way to transition between keyed footage?

    2. Can we get MC to treat a keyed layer as  the keyed area + the rest of the transparent layer available for an effect to apply to? I was hoping that when keying footage and then putting it in a submaster the entire layer would be exposed to segments effects like an AE precomp but this does not seem to be the case - an effect will apply but it will not got beyond the bounds of the mask so glows etc. don't really look right

     

  • Thu, Jul 25 2013 7:17 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Avid
    • Posts 9,200
    • Points 205,380
    • Avid Beta Moderators
      Avid Customer Advocate
      Avid Developer Moderator
      BlogAuthor
      SystemAdministrator

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    Hello Leonisa,

    Is THIS what you are trying to achieve?

    As I said in that clip, I would use Avid FX.

    However, if you want to use Animatte, I am sure someone will come along and help you out with it.

    It is ages since I used Animatte, so I am not really sure how you would get the dissolve working.
    But I am sure it is possible.

    The only way I can suggest would be to do one keyed effect - do a video mixdown of it

    Then do the next keyed effect -  do another video mixdown

    Put the 2 mixdowns together on a timeline and then add the dissolve.

    Regards

    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

    mobile 813-493-6800

    AOL IM:  avidmarianna

    Twitter:  avidmarianna

    Skype: mariannamontague

    WWLD

  • Thu, Jul 25 2013 9:39 AM In reply to

    • leonisa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Apr 2 2006
    • Posts 18
    • Points 240

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    Hello,

     

    I will try Avid FX now and report back.

    Yes, I am using Spectramatte (is that what you meant - not Animatte). I am cutting a pop promo and every foreground shot is the artist on greenscreen. I haven't done a job like this in Avid for ages and I am little perplexed that in the such mature product I am running into this strange limitation - in the back of my mind before I started I wsa thinking that collapsing / submastering would isolate those shots like an AE PreComp but that was a silly assumption. Due to time constraints the plan wss that I would be able to key the footage and then throw down a load of FX and transitions of the forground Artist and finish the whole job inside MC - this sort of thing shouldn't be exclusive domain of Autodesk Smoke.

    Anyway - give me an hour an I will go and fire up Avid FX and do some experiments - thanks for the video example.

     

    leonisa

  • Thu, Jul 25 2013 10:15 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Avid
    • Posts 9,200
    • Points 205,380
    • Avid Beta Moderators
      Avid Customer Advocate
      Avid Developer Moderator
      BlogAuthor
      SystemAdministrator

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    leonisa:
    Yes, I am using Spectramatte (is that what you meant - not Animatte)

    You are correct, I should have said "Spectramatte"

    To be honest, I have never used Spectramatte - ever.

    Good luck with your experiments

    Regards,
    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

    mobile 813-493-6800

    AOL IM:  avidmarianna

    Twitter:  avidmarianna

    Skype: mariannamontague

    WWLD

  • Thu, Jul 25 2013 10:58 AM In reply to

    • leonisa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Apr 2 2006
    • Posts 18
    • Points 240

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    OK,

     

    I just put the Avid FX effect on each clip pulled a quick key.

    V2 - Clips with Avid FX

    V1 - BG

    I put a Push Left - Right in between my clips on V2 and the push effect was using in the background in V1 not jush pushing in my keyed forgeground footage

    With a dissolve you would never know this. Can you try your example with a push Left - Right and see if it leaves the background alone and just the foreground objects are pushed in and out respecting the key?

     

  • Thu, Jul 25 2013 9:14 PM In reply to

    • Wm.Busby
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • LA, Cali
    • Posts 377
    • Points 4,405

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    If I'm understanding you correctly... once in AvidFX do your moves on your keyed element there with the position controls, etc. Don't just come back into MC & placed some normal transition (push left or right) or you'll get the result you are now getting

    HP Z400 (W3520) 2.67 ghz quad core, 12GB ram, Quadro K2000 (Nvidia driver 310.90), Win 7 Pro 64, MC 5.5.3, Quicktime version 7.6.9, KVM switch, dual 20"... [view my complete system specs]

    Forum etiquette rule #1: FILL OUT SYSTEM SPECS IN PROFILE! :)

  • Thu, Jul 25 2013 9:46 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Avid
    • Posts 9,200
    • Points 205,380
    • Avid Beta Moderators
      Avid Customer Advocate
      Avid Developer Moderator
      BlogAuthor
      SystemAdministrator

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    Wm.Busby:

    If I'm understanding you correctly... once in AvidFX do your moves on your keyed element there with the position controls, etc. Don't just come back into MC & placed some normal transition (push left or right) or you'll get the result you are now getting

    Geeked You beat me to it William!
    I was asleep in Japan - that is not fair Big Smile

    Here is another sample showing just what you suggested.

    As you say - do it all in Avid FX (don't mix it with Avid's native AVX effects)

    Sorry that I could only find some green screen plates from Hollywood Camera Work to use for this.
    Also, as I am busy with other things, it is a quick job without any attempt to do careful keying.

    Hope it illustrates what William and I are suggesting

    http://www.screencast.com/t/msXHMiw4b7

     

    Regrads

    Douglas

     

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

    mobile 813-493-6800

    AOL IM:  avidmarianna

    Twitter:  avidmarianna

    Skype: mariannamontague

    WWLD

  • Thu, Jul 25 2013 10:21 PM In reply to

    • leonisa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Apr 2 2006
    • Posts 18
    • Points 240

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    Douglas,

    Thank you for the explcit example and taking the time to make it.  Yes, I misunderstood you. I was under the impression one could circumvent the limitations of the timeline effects by keying footage inside a plugin and then combining that with timeline effects.

    So AIUI you cannot mix the two pipelines. Either you do all your compositing in Avid FX or you have to use what the timeline can offer.

    I am going to have 120 shots to do like this so I think will do the entire basic edit in MC export to AE and do it shot by shot there, that way I get a better keyer that what can be found in Avid FX and i won't be fighting the system.

    There must be something deep in the architechture of MC that prevents isolating layers from the layer below that has prevented them from implementing this up until now.

    It would seem perfectly reasonable to think

    Make Spectramatter Key -> Transition between two keyed elements without pulling in layers below to "make a background".

    It does seem rather counter-intuitive.

  • Thu, Jul 25 2013 10:55 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Avid
    • Posts 9,200
    • Points 205,380
    • Avid Beta Moderators
      Avid Customer Advocate
      Avid Developer Moderator
      BlogAuthor
      SystemAdministrator

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    leonisa:

    Douglas,
    Thank you for the explcit example and taking the time to make it

    No trouble at all. In fact it was an interesting experiment for me.

     

    leonisa:
    I was under the impression one could circumvent the limitations of the timeline effects by keying footage inside a plugin and then combining that with timeline effects.

    It may be possible, but I have no idea how to do it, and nobody else has stepped in with a way to do it . . . .  so . . . . . .

     

    leonisa:
    I am going to have 120 shots to do like this so I think will do the entire basic edit in MC export to AE and do it shot by shot there

    If you are at home in AE, that would seem to be the easiest way out.

     

    leonisa:
    that way I get a better keyer that what can be found in Avid FX

    Maybe not quite accurate. I think that if you know the controls of the Chroma Key in combination with the Matte Choker, you can get a very clean key. But, again, if you are at home in AE and not in Avid FX, then you are correct in choosing AE

     

    leonisa:

    There must be something deep in the architechture of MC that prevents isolating layers from the layer below that has prevented them from implementing this up until now.

    It would seem perfectly reasonable to think

    I think that the basic difference between doing it in AvidFX and doing it in Avid's native AVX interface is quite simply - 
    Avid FX is a compositing application, and that's what it does best. 
    Avid MC/Symphony are NLEs and that's what they do best

    Regards

    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

    mobile 813-493-6800

    AOL IM:  avidmarianna

    Twitter:  avidmarianna

    Skype: mariannamontague

    WWLD

  • Fri, Jul 26 2013 12:55 AM In reply to

    • leonisa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Apr 2 2006
    • Posts 18
    • Points 240

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

     

    leonisa:
    that way I get a better keyer that what can be found in Avid FX

    drbgaijin:
    Maybe not quite accurate. I think that if you know the controls of the Chroma Key in combination with the Matte Choker, you can get a very clean key. But, again, if you are at home in AE and not in Avid FX, then you are correct in choosing AE

    Yes, didn't mean to dismiss it on what might be user ignorance on my part but I am under time pressure so I just need to pull a key and hopefully just fiddle with a couple of built in controls to fix - plus it's a female subject w/ blonde hair on not the best green screen!

    I completely agree with you that either MC is an NLE and that is what it is best at but the FX engine is touted as more than just cursory effects. I think maybe a little too much because it looks like perhaps you don't have the direct control on a layer by layer as you would have in DS / Smoke.

    I will post the finished job when done.

  • Fri, Jul 26 2013 2:46 PM In reply to

    • mBlaze
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Boston
    • Posts 427
    • Points 4,905

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    Leonisa, I know I'm a little late to answer your question, but it is possible to do a push on the foreground without effecting the background using the technique from the Adding Effects to a Chroma Key Foreground in Avid blog.

    The trick is WHERE you put the Push effect(s).

    As mentioned, it is probably easier to do it in Avid FX, but then you can't really see the transition in your timeline because it is done inside the AvidFX interface.

    I have attached the timeline that does a push on the foreground of a key but leaves the background alone. Here's a description of what you're looking at in the timeline:

    V1.3 - This is the foreground green screen element, much like in the tutorial from the blog. The SpectraMatte is set to "Show Alpha". The transition is applied to the alpha video created by the SpectraMatte of both the outgoing and incoming green screen shots. Both of the SpectraMatte shots and the Push Left to Right transition are nested in a Matte Key effect on V3.

    V3 - This is the incoming and outgoing foreground shots nested in a Matte Key effect.

    V2 - This is the same green screen foreground shots from the SpectraMatte (ShowAlpha) in V1.3, with the same Push effect on them.

    V1 - This is the background video.

    I hope this makes sense.

    James

    Avid Media Composer 7.0.3 on MacBook Pro 2.5GHz Intel Core i7 [view my complete system specs]

    James Burke
    Video Producer / Editor / Designer
    blog.DVfanatics.com

  • Fri, Jul 26 2013 3:04 PM In reply to

    • mBlaze
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Boston
    • Posts 427
    • Points 4,905

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    You know, the more I think about it, it's easier still (provided you don't need to change the SpectraMatte setting to get a good key for each separate foreground shot).

    Drop the transition on between your green screen shots first, then nest them in the SpectraMatte effect (screenshot attached).


    Avid Media Composer 7.0.3 on MacBook Pro 2.5GHz Intel Core i7 [view my complete system specs]

    James Burke
    Video Producer / Editor / Designer
    blog.DVfanatics.com

  • Fri, Jul 26 2013 3:52 PM In reply to

    • leonisa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Apr 2 2006
    • Posts 18
    • Points 240

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    Hi,

     

    I am going to try this now. I will need to have different settings on each Spectramatte shot so will try example 1 first. Will report back shortly!.......

  • Fri, Jul 26 2013 5:50 PM In reply to

    • leonisa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Apr 2 2006
    • Posts 18
    • Points 240

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

    Hi,

    Impressed. Got it working. I think I have a pipeline for finishing inside MC.

    I went one stage further. I needed a garbage matte on the keyed footage so added that using the Paint Effect followed by the Spectramatte and this is also working good. 

    I have tried other effects appart from Push, and most work as expected some don't

    Bad one: Squeeze (not that it matters) but I wonder if there is some way to ascertain in advance whether some effects will work and some won't based on some kind of internal setting in the effect. 

    Downloaded a Genarts trial and tried some of their transitions. Most of them work as you would expect just affecting the keyed footage. Except for that glare that I have attached - it seems to blow the alpha out so you start to see some green screen. Again, these effects must be using somethign internally that stops respecting the alpha in some way or changes it

     I notice you don't have a submaster inside your your Matte Key unlike me. Is that because you stepped in and pasted rather than collapsing and applying (which is what I need)? 


  • Fri, Jul 26 2013 5:50 PM In reply to

    • leonisa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Apr 2 2006
    • Posts 18
    • Points 240

    Re: Transitions between keyed footage

Page 1 of 2 (27 items) 1 2 Next >

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller