Latest post Wed, Feb 13 2013 5:17 PM by ppohio. 15 replies.
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  • Mon, Feb 4 2013 9:21 PM

    • asice
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    Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    I have been  trying to work this problem out for quite sometime, and feel like I have a workaround, but finally have time to figure out a tried and true workflow for the 5D mark iii and Avid MC. 

    I spent days trying to figure out different workflows. What I found that regardless of import, ama, transcode rgb 709, ycbcr 709, my gamma was shifting and my blacks were being crushed, extremely frustrating to say the least. 

    I have found that the closest I have gotten is using mpegstreamclip to convert to DNxHD outside of avid and then import, I get the closest colors... but I lose timecode. Which for my past couple of shoots I was fine with doing. My upcoming one I do not have that luxury. 

    I know this site is riddled with this same issue, I have looked at countless threads and tried different settings to no avial. Is there a tried and true 5d mark iii workflow?  

    Here is an imgur album that shows what I am talking about. 

    Here are the pics separately 

    Source File screen grab from VLC

    Avid AMA screen grab

    Avid Transcoded

  • Mon, Feb 4 2013 9:37 PM In reply to

    • asice
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    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    I just did a quick test in FCP 7 and seeing that the preview in Log and Transfer shows crushed gamma but imports fine using the e1 plugin to prores, doesn't really help me but is interesting. 

  • Mon, Feb 4 2013 9:46 PM In reply to

    • asice
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    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    Wow I just did a test comparing the orignal file played in VLC, to the File converted to prores using e1 in FCP, and the file converted in mpeg streamclip to DNxHD and in to Avid import. In conclusion, the VLC and ProRes are near identical, and the Avid DNxHD is now a little (but much better) more washed out. my results you can see in this imgur album.

    ProRes created from FCP L&T and Canon E1 plugin, Original, and then the last one is Mpeg Streamclip converted to DNxHD and Imported to Avid. - http://imgur.com/a/2RaNx

    Avid ama and transcode compared to original - http://imgur.com/a/npatD

  • Mon, Feb 4 2013 10:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    To be honest most 5D footage needs some (or even lots) of correction so a little gamma tweaking isn't a deal breaker if qwuality was that importnat it wouldn't have been shot on a 5D.

    Actually trusting the monitoring via playback software and display cards and drivers has so many variables.

    So I just get it in to Avid (normally via AMA link and then use set source settings to check for levels and compress if needed) and then grade and adjusta s required so it looks correct on my outboard HD waveform monitors and HD CRT. I know a Same as Source Avid export will be flat and tape playouts will of course be fine.

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  • Mon, Feb 4 2013 10:24 PM In reply to

    • asice
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    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    Ok, I know I am talking to myself but hopefully this will help someone in the future. I have now found that If I take that ProRes file generated through FCP and the E1 plugin and import using RGB 709 to Avid, in avid it looks like the gammas are closest to what the original is, then the key is exporting using DNxHD RGB 709. Playback is crazy on anything but VLC, I have also noticed that the preview (just selecting a file and pressing spacebar looks pretty good too IMO).

  • Mon, Feb 11 2013 4:53 PM In reply to

    • asice
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    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

     

     

    Sorry I didn't realize anyone had responded, I agree on all the variables that go in to correct playback, but I'm still getting this contrasty gamma shift on export. When you say this

    Pat Horridge:

    So I just get it in to Avid (normally via AMA link and then use set source settings to check for levels and compress if needed) 

    I'm not seeing in the AMA settings a "set source settings" area, am I missing something?

     

    Anther interesting tid bit, I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that using the wrapper .mpeg makes the program decode the file, rather than the file using it's own decoder (it was used in premier to have proper playback when linking to files) When I change it to .mpeg, the gamma shift happens anyway, also AVID doens't allow import of mpeg files?

     

  • Mon, Feb 11 2013 5:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    asice:
    I'm not seeing in the AMA settings a "set source settings" area, am I missing something

    Depends on what version of MC you are using.  You don't say.

     

     

    Symphony v8.8 | OS 10.11.6 • Nitris DX • 12-core MacPro (Mid 2012) • 36 GB RAM • Facilis Terrablock 24EX [view my complete system specs]

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  • Mon, Feb 11 2013 5:30 PM In reply to

    • asice
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    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    Kevin Klimek:

    Depends on what version of MC you are using.  You don't say.

     

    Sorry It's in the title of the post I'm running Avid MC 6.0.1

  • Mon, Feb 11 2013 5:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    Uninstall the E1 plugin and any other software that has a H.264 decoder (Perien for example).

    MC 8.6.1, Windows 10, ASROCK X99M, Intel 5930K, Zotac GTX970, 32GB RAM, Transcend 512GB M.2 SSD & Dell U2713H. MBP 2012 Thunderbolt, OSX 10.10.5, MC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 11 2013 7:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    Also, be sure to compare source and exported result in a properly set up environment. Apple's Quicktime may cause all kinds of gamma display differences that MC may ignore when using Import or AMA.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 12 2013 12:17 PM In reply to

    • cccu tech
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    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    Also, if you export using manual settings (i.e. not same as source) you will be bringing the QuickTime engine into play which can add further elements to the mix.

    Avid 5.5.3 Snow Leopard 10.6.8 2007 2x 2.8Ghx Quad Mac Pro 4GB Ram [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 12 2013 12:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    cccu tech:

    Also, if you export using manual settings (i.e. not same as source) you will be bringing the QuickTime engine into play which can add further elements to the mix.

    Very important to note, indeed.

     

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  • Wed, Feb 13 2013 2:14 AM In reply to

    • ppohio
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    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    It works on 6.0.1 - when I work with 5D I always AMA them in to a bin, then select them all, right click on them, and go to Set Source Settings, which is in the 9th or 10th chunk of options (a little over halfway down). Then compress graphic levels to video levels, click OK, and then do the transcode so the gamma is correct.

    I have done log and transfer or converted with other programs to DNx and then fast-imported, but I don't think the results are noticeably different from compressing the graphic levels in source settings prior to trasncode.

    Macbook Pro 15" 2.2Ghz, Intel Core i7, AMD Radeon HD 6750M, 8GB RAM OS X Lion 10.9.1 Avid Media Composer 7.0.3 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 13 2013 4:33 PM In reply to

    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    ppohio:
    compress graphic levels to video levels
    This will force your levels to become video legal, but you may not always want to do this if you will be doing any subsequent grading, as you are reducing the overal dynamic definition of your picture.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 13 2013 4:44 PM In reply to

    • asice
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    Re: Dreaded Gamma Shift 5d Mark iii Avid 6.0.1

    ppohio:

     Then compress graphic levels to video levels, click OK, and then do the transcode so the gamma is correct.

    Genius, worked perfectly.

    What are the drawbacks from doing this? When another user says some dynamic definition may be lossed, how bad is it? 

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