Latest post Mon, Oct 17 2011 9:40 PM by Mediagix. 4 replies.
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  • Sun, Oct 16 2011 3:13 PM

    • Mediagix
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    • Joined on Sun, Jul 3 2011
    • Posts 91
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    FIX: Audio Mark Editing / Trim Mode Lasso / Preview Play

    WARNING: This is not an easy read.

    Referring to the AUDIO MARK IN and OUT, found by default at SHIFT+E or +R:

    When I OVERWRITE EDIT from SOURCE MONITOR with AUDIO MARK IN and OUT, located differently than "corresponding" VIDEO IN and OUT, I can't tell the AUDIO alone precisely, where to begin in RECORD; because when I set an AUDIO IN on the RECORD SIDE, it only uses the SOURCE'S VIDEO SELECTION, IGNORING SOURCE AUDIO selection altogether, instead of using the AUDIO and VIDEO at fully selected lengths, starting at the RECORDS MONITOR AUDIO IN.

    Even weirder, if you select an AUDIO IN and a bit later the VIDEO IN, both on RECORD MONITOR, it will OVERWRITE the ENTIRE SOURCE'S AUDIO IN and OUT selection as VIDEO and AUDIO to the TIMELINE, and then EXTEND the AUDIO from there to either side up until the RECORD'S AUDIO MARK IN or OUTS are matched; gets worse when your using both AUDIO IN and OUT on the RECORD SIDE, at the same time... (Provided that Source Audio Mark In comes first, otherwise it follows another "logic")

    It gets even user-fiendlier, when your wanting to INSERT EDIT. Of course it does, what it logically should: it inserts Video and Audio in its different lengths, knocking everything out of sync. It doesn't make any sense to me. At least, I haven't yet found a single application for that operation. If you have, let me know. On the other hand, when I SYNC LOCK the tracks and then try to INSERT, it'll again tell me, that this is not possible: "edit ambiguous". Again, it is logical but not entirely true, cause it could just punch in the selected segments, starting with the edit first in time, be it Video or Audio, an ending with the edit being last, filling the corresponding holes with BLACK.

    What would make much more sense to me for this operation: OVERWRITE in RECORD whatever comes first from SOURCE, either AUDIO or VIDEO MARK IN UNTIL the next IN, form there INSERT until whatever comes next, again be it either Audio or Video MARK OUT, AND LASTLY OVERWRITE until the last SOURCE'S VIDEO or AUDIO OUT POINT is reached.

    Now, you could just splice-in the SOURCE with different AUDIO and VIDEO MARKS (it'll use the VIDEO IN from both SOURCE and RECORD as reference point) THEN lasso the selection and then JKL-play-slide it where you want it. Unfortunately, when you lasso it, you'll have to press SHIFT and ALT while lassoing (from right!) in ORDER to SLIDE, otherwise it'll SLIP. Which doesn't make good sense, at least in this context, since the SEGMENTS are mostly already preselected. Otherwise they wouldn't be segments, likely to have audio and video edits in different places.

    To round up the whole experience, when you want to preview your edit by PLAY LOOP, while in TRIM MODE, it'll only count your set "PREROLL for PLAY LOOP"-time backward from the first VIDEO EDIT affected by TRIMMING, not the AUDIO.

    Clearly, the "PREROLL for PLAY LOOP" should default from the first edit affected by trimming, regardless whether it'd be VIDEO or AUDIO, or at least offer an option in the settings.

     

    about.me/c.g.fell

  • Sun, Oct 16 2011 5:13 PM In reply to

    Re: FIX: Audio Mark Editing / Trim Mode Lasso / Preview Play

    On the last point, you can Command click a different roller (which will move the blue line) to make that the center of the play loop.

    MC 8.8.2 OSX 10.12.3 Quicktime 7.6.6 Nitris DX [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Oct 16 2011 6:22 PM In reply to

    • Mediagix
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    • Joined on Sun, Jul 3 2011
    • Posts 91
    • Points 1,115

    Re: FIX: Audio Mark Editing / Trim Mode Lasso / Preview Play

    James@Seamless:

    On the last point, you can Command click a different roller (which will move the blue line) to make that the center of the play loop.

    It does the trick, but not always it seems, depending on how many edits are covered by the lasso, it sometimes jumps back to a previous edit.

     

    about.me/c.g.fell

  • Mon, Oct 17 2011 4:46 PM In reply to

    • stevecohen
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 3 2006
    • Venice, California
    • Posts 499
    • Points 5,520

    Re: FIX: Audio Mark Editing / Trim Mode Lasso / Preview Play

    A couple of points that will hopefully help:

    First, you're expected to use only one audio mark per edit. Either Audio Mark In OR Audio Mark Out, on the source OR record side, but not both. If you use more, you may get an edit, but it won't make much sense. Second, audio marks are really designed for overwrite (red edit), not splice-in (yellow edit). I think there are cases where they'll work with splice-in, but it never made much sense to me.

    Second, regarding trimming, once you've got your trim set up (ie on an overlap cut), a single-click on an existing roller will move the blue bar to that transition. It's not a command-click. Just a single click on an existing roller.

    The blue bar position determines the beginning and end of play loop -- the loop goes around the blue bar (except when you have a slip or slide, in which case it goes around the whole slip/slide). And the position of the blue bar determines what you'll see and hear when you hit JKL. You should always see and hear whatever is happening to the trim at the blue bar position. (In my book I call it the "watch point" in a trim.)

    Steve

  • Mon, Oct 17 2011 9:40 PM In reply to

    • Mediagix
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Jul 3 2011
    • Posts 91
    • Points 1,115

    Re: FIX: Audio Mark Editing / Trim Mode Lasso / Preview Play

    To my mind, the machine should never "suppose" me to do anything, instead it should do what's deductively logical.

    I never saw anyone use audio marks, presumably for reasons implied above.

     

    My post is not so much a question, it's more about challenging the paradigm.

    That's why it is in the "Avid Product Feature Requests" section.

    Cause if an advanced editor stumbles upon these things, it's time for a serious re-write.

    about.me/c.g.fell

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